War on terrorism

[deathscythe04]

I Think We need to be doing this war on terroism, pulling out now would do more harm than good.

[darklordrevan]

Would you care to elaborate on that? There are many issues when discussing the war on terrorism that are good and bad. The invasion of Afghanistan and the expulsion of the Taliban was a good thing for the world (personally speaking), one less place for international terrorists to be safe. The invasion of Iraq whist under false pretences was still potentially a good thing. Although there is still sectarian violence, such violence can be attributed to a general intolerance and hatred between the Shia and Sunni. Here in the UK the so called 'Irish problem' is similar to Iraq. The sectarian violence in Northern Ireland was similar to how Iraq has become since the invasion Now Northern Ireland has become almost entirely peaceful as the 'terrorist organisations' have realised that politics is a far more effective tool than violence.

Any future invasion of Iran would be a bad idea. The people of Iran have a hard enough life without their Government being overturned and gorilla warfare commencing as it does in Iraq. Whilst diplomatic relations may be very tense over the proliferation of nuclear arms, the US and UK are having a hard enough time fighting two separate wars, a third would put too much strain on the military and convince Muslims of the world that this is not a war on terror, but a war against Islam. The safest period in international history was when two worlds, east and west had ICBM's pointed at each other, the fear of a global nuclear war meant that the world picked sides, be it with NATO or the Warsaw Pact. International terrorism wasn't as large a threat as it is now and during the cold war, those the US determine to be 'rouge states' were essentially quiet due to the fear of MAD.

It is also very clear amongst the legal community that the US and UK have twisted both domestic law and international law (be it by treaty or convention) to suit their ends in the execution of this war on terror, either by circumventing the United Nations or the human rights of illegal detainees. Whist i personally believe that extemem measures are required, the US and UK should not be so hypocritical on the issue of human rights. The laws should be re-written if they wish to detain people without any real evidence or use torture for information (which in my book would is and would be going too far).

Fourthly, the domestic effort against terrorism in the UK has had some successes but also some tragic failures. Jean Charles de Menezes, an innocent man was shot seven times in the head and once in the shoulder by British police as he was a suspected terrorist (with no evidence against him considering the didn't even know who he was). I know this is an extreme case considering other injustices in both the US and UK but these things should not be happening just because the police are trigger happy.

Sorry for going on a bit but the dissertation for my degree was on international terrorism and i find it very intersting

[CarloGiann]

Not to be rude or anything but........

The topic title was a little to extreme for just 1 SMALL LITTLE SENTENCE.

[deathscythe04]

right now we have pressure on the terrorists which is preventing more attacks, in iraq we captured a dictator. we also destroyed lots of weapons that could have been used to make really deadly IEDs or attack soldiers directly. pulling out now will make all of it a total waste of time, money, and lives.

[deathscythe04]

"During the entire Clinton presidency, there was no response to the escalating terror attacks on America. From the World Trade Center bombing in 1993, to the USS Cole bombing in 2000 and the embassy and military base attacks in between, there was no reaction from America. Al Qaeda was emboldened to their greatest attack yet, the WTC attack of 2001. And make no mistake, this was planned for years before GW Bush was elected president.
Since 911, there have been no successful terror attacks on American soil. A point seemingly lost on the the liberal left, the media, and irrelevent neighboring countries who sit under the umbrella of our protection. We are in a global war against terror. You'd have to be blind to miss it. The train station bombings in Spain, the resort/hotel attacks in the south Pacific, the school massacre in Russia, the bombings in the train stations and on busses in London, the recently thwarted hijacking of the planes from the UK headed to America. These are all attacks by radical Islamic extremists.
It's easy to pretend none of that happened, especially like I said, there haven't been any attacks at home in 5 and a half years. You have that luxury. But you're a fool if you deny there are people who despise the freedoms we enjoy. Equal voting rights for everyone... including women. Equal chance for prosperity and success. The fact that no matter your religion or skin color, economic background, or anything can hold you back from the American dream. These are alien concept to radical Islam. They view it as decadence. They have vowed to either turn America Islam or destroy her. They use their own children as bombs. They behead their prisoners and set them afire.
Don't forget the lesson Spain learned... they pulled out of Iraq, and within months had an Al Qaeda bombing on their soil. Realize also that when you hear a speech by a far left politician, it has the same talking points as the ones you hear from Al Qaeda on Al Jazerra TV. So much so, that after the 2006 elections, Al Zarhawi released one of his ranting finger pointing diatribes warning the democrats to keep their campaign promises.
So go ahead, make your crazy conspiracy theories that we're fighting terror as subtrafuge to conver some global conspiracy to make money... like I said... you have that luxury. It's OK. The real patriots are wearing the uniform with the American flag and risking their lives all over the world to keep you safe." just some stuff someone else said in another forums

[darklordrevan]

I think you hit the nail on the head there with what happened to Spain. If you give in to terrorists you just embolden them. It is why i think that human rights law should be relaxed properly for these cases. I suppose i also forgot to mention that if Iran did get the bomb then any political allies of Iran that harbour terrorists would be under their protection and would never be brought to justice.

[deathscythe04]

i am gonna be posting some stuff from another forum on this topic. i will put quotes around stuff that i didn't say myself

[deathscythe04]

"There's different levels of success in different areas. Al-qaeda says they are now making Iraq their primary front against western culture (a.k.a. American values) and the troop surge is showing moderate to excellent progress depending on the areas. Troop deaths are vastly lower these past few months.
In other areas, again, it depends on where you look. In England, there's been public outcry to stop supporting the efforts in iraq and the reward was several plots and 1 notable attack. Spain pulled their troops from Iraq and had a train station bombed by muslims as a way of saying "thanks, suckers".
Here at home, it's been over 6 years since 9-11 and no attack on American soil. This despite "news" organizations like The NY Times printing top secret intelligence gathering tactics. President Bush said early on that the war on terror would take years. We may not see a cessation of muslim terror in our lifetime. But we will continue the fight.
Remember, this is not a new fight.
1979: Islamoterrorists took our people hostage in Iran.
1982-1991: 18 Americans kidnapped in Lebanon.
1983: bombing of the U.S embassy in Beirut, Lebanon.
1983: bombing of marine barracks in Beirut, Lebanon.
1983: bombing of U.S. embassy in Kuwait.
1984: bombing of U.S. embassy in Beirut Lebanon (again).
1985: bombing of restaurant in Madrid, Spain that was popular with U.S. servicemen stationed there.
1985: TWA flight 847 hijacked and forced to land in Lebanon by Hezbollah.
1985: bombing of U.S. airbase in Frankfurt, Germany.
1985: Cruise ship Achille Lauro hijacked by the P.L.O.
1985: Egyptair flight 648 hijacked by Abu Nidal Organization.
1985: Simultanious attacks in Vienna and Rome on Israels El Air ticket/check in counter with guns and gernades killing civilians.
1986: TWA flight 840 bombed.
1986: bombing of La Belle, a disco in Berlin popular with U.S. servicemen
1988: bombing of Pan Am flight 103.
1993: Pakisini man, Mir Aimal Kasi, drove to CIA headquarters and shot 2 CIA agents. Claimed he was mad at how Muslims are treated.
1993: World Trade Center attacked first time with car bomb.
1995: bombing of U.S. base in Saudi Arabia.
1996: bombing of U.S. military base at Khobar Towers, Saudi Arabia.
1998: simultanious bombings of U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania.
2000: bombing of U.S.S. Cole.
2001: attacks on World Trade Center and Pentagon.
So, don't fall for the democrat talking point that this is all because of George Bush. The Islamic terrorists have been at war with us for almost 30 years."

[volmer]

You're wrong. Americans are in war with the countries and americans start those wars. The people are the ones who hate and attack you. Go watch the movie "Kingdom."


EDIT: Sry for double post

[weaver]

Stop abhorring war for war's sake. War is a natural part of man's nature and it will remain so. Better discussions are WHY we should go to war, when is it right, when is it appropriate and how we should do it.

What defines right?

Economic justification?
Morale?

Digg - Western Alliance Responds to Iraqi Genocide by Iranian Security Forces

Read it. Digg it. Love it.

[deathscythe04]

we are not at war against any countries now. btw weaver in your signature photo is that you??

Originally Posted by weaver

Stop abhorring war for war's sake. War is a natural part of man's nature and it will remain so. Better discussions are WHY we should go to war, when is it right, when is it appropriate and how we should do it.

What defines right?

Economic justification?
Morale?

Digg - Western Alliance Responds to Iraqi Genocide by Iranian Security Forces

Read it. Digg it. Love it.

cool link

[weaver]

That is me.. and I don't believe we have had a formal declaration of war since WWII??? Does anyone doubt we have /been/ to war though since?

[darklordrevan]

The were formal declarations of war in The Falklands and the gulf war of the top of my head. However since WWII we have had democracy and free trade and there have been no wars between the major countries of the world, only with those that would be classed as 'rouge states'. Democracy and free trade obviously aren't the only fix but the major military powers of the C20th no longer wage war with each other.

[deathscythe04]

Those were not wars, US congress is only thing that can declare war. Congress said the president can start a war but it really is a conflict.