Tullsy
Board Admin
Posts: 2703
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The Gay Rights Movement
Posted: Jan 17, 2012, 22:39:27
It was a tossup for which subforum to post this in, but I believe this is still a political issue here in the US.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u62OtM_vt5k
Bills like Don't Ask, Don't Tell, and many of our Republican candidates this time around are socially backwards, I think it's time the United States grew up and realized it's behind the times. Last Edited: Jan 17, 2012, 23:27:19
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enomooshiki
Member
Posts: 71
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Re: The Gay Rights Movement
Posted: Jan 18, 2012, 11:49:34
agreed,
it's one of those problems that we try to 'cover up' instead of actually fix.
it's definitely going to be a long fight. |
Tullsy
Board Admin
Posts: 2703
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Re: The Gay Rights Movement
Posted: Jan 18, 2012, 17:18:52
Definitely, that's what I told cpnichol last night when I was talking with him about this.
He had mentioned that, in the UK, they allowed Gays the same rights as everyone else, so long as they got married somewhere else. This, in my opinion, is just a false facade. They want to appease the church, but they also want to come across to voters as being forward and progressive thinking.
Like every other person on this planet, I believe that they have the right to choose their partners. They are no different than any white, black, Chirstian, Jewish, Indian, etc, man or woman, and they should be given the same rights - that is, the ability to get married anywhere, and not face or fear persecution for their choices.
Heck, there are places in the world today where people believe that being Gay is learned, or "taught," and they have programs to help "undo" the process. |
8ubbles
Member
Posts: 29
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Re: The Gay Rights Movement
Posted: Jan 22, 2012, 18:55:32
Being Gay or Athiest in the US right now is a little tough. The right categorizes both as threats to the American way. If you read Fox news websites you can see the call for murder against both groups on a daily basis.
TV Networks are constantly showing murder and genocide all day long during primetime. One slip of a wardrobe revealing a human breast and OMG - Seizures in the church aisles. Breasts are considered more evil than Zombies and waterboarding and movies about Hitler.
That being said the right is not the only force in american politics and most of the people I know are not republican due to living in the city limits of a Washington state city. |
RockSteady
Global Moderator
Posts: 114
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Re: The Gay Rights Movement
Posted: Jan 24, 2012, 09:02:39
Wow that previous post is so full of overstatements and falsities I don't know where to start. I am not a huge fan of foxnews, but I have never seen them calling for the murder of a gay individual. If you are going to say something false, at least make it somewhat believable. I would also say that is a tougher road to be Christian in the US right now than atheist. As a Christian, I believe that while it is no worse than any other sin in the world, homosexuality is a sin nonetheless. But in America, this is viewed as close minded and the belief set of Christianity is chastised on a daily basis. It is much easier in this country to say that God isn't real and I don't believe in Him than to say I believe in God and everything He has told us in his word. On the issue of gay marriage, I agree with Ron Paul, why does the government have to get involved at all? If a church refuses to marry a gay couple, let them go to a justice of the peace. All this being said, I do believe that marriage was created by God to be between one man and one woman. The verbal attacks and chastisement can commence. Last Edited: Jan 24, 2012, 09:08:35
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Tullsy
Board Admin
Posts: 2703
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Re: The Gay Rights Movement
Posted: Jan 24, 2012, 11:40:55
I was raised a Christian, but I was never serious about the practice. That being said, I don't believe in God, and know very little about Christianity, so I'll try not to comment on that side of things. I do, however, believe that there should be no one but ourselves in the bedroom. That is, we make our own decisions and not let others, Government or God, decide what we can and can't do there - figuratively and literally...
Erebus, I don't think Bubbles is that far off when talking about the right. He does, however, need to qualify it as the extreme right. Fox has spread missinformation, lies, and propaganda about gays to serve its political agenda. While they do not represent everyone on the right, they represent a good portion, in my opinion. Last Edited: Jan 24, 2012, 11:41:15
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Xemnas
Board Admin
Posts: 1987
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Re: The Gay Rights Movement
Posted: Jan 25, 2012, 17:35:03
Gay people have my support, I don't get why most people think that gay people are 2nd class citizins (or minorities) and don't deserve the right marry someone. They are people too, They deserve as much right as you and i do, Reguardless of their sexual orientation.
But what really pisses me off is when the governement feel obligated to turn gay marriage into a law. Thats down-right Bigotry. |
XTR3M3
Member
Posts: 2602
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Re: The Gay Rights Movement
Posted: Jan 31, 2012, 18:57:47
I don't mind if the state sanctions it so that same sex couples can have the same rights, tax atvantages, ect. as a married hetero couple can have. What I DON"T want is for the state to say that churches will be forced to marry same sex couple and I don't think we should be redefining the word itself to mean something new. That doesn't make anyone a second class citizen any more than not being a Christian would make someone be a second class citizen. Give them the same rights and they are not descriminated against. Why would a gay couple want to be married in a church anyway knowing how the church views their lifestyle?
I always hear "churches are hypocrites because they are suppose to love everyone so why don't they love the gays and why do they not allow them to openly practice?" Here it is in a nutshell....
the church would not allow someone to openly practice armed robbery, murder, adultury, or any other sin. They allow "repentative" people and "repentative" and "openly practicing" are almost polar opposites. They perceive it as a sin and it says no sin is any worse than another. To be forced to accept that lifestyle as "OK" would be forcing them to go against core religious beliefs.You can't pick and choose as a Christian which parts of the Bible you want to believe. You either believe it all, or the whole is invalid.
I have always thought that the government should quit calling it marriage and go to a civil union type classification that includes all and leave the marriage word to be used by people in the church.
in summary, everyone deserves the same rights apples to apples but not all rights are equal. I will give you an gender example since this is a gender based topic. I have the right as a man to use a public restroom for men. I do NOT have the right to use a women's public restroom, nor do I have the right to go into the women's locker room. Marriage has always been about the church and the goverment just adopted it. They should just do away with it and let the church have it. Have legal civil unions performed by a state official and if the people so choose, they can then go and have their marriage ceremony in a church. The marriage then will have no legal bearing but the core of marriage was always about the union of a man and a woman, not about what tax breaks or rights you get. Separation of church and state means the state needs to stay out of the church as well. Liberials seem to forget that when trying to pound their views down people's throats. Don't get me wrong, the right wing has wackos as well that give us a bad name. |
cpnichol
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Posts: 5684
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Re: The Gay Rights Movement
Posted: Feb 5, 2012, 16:18:10
People's opinions on homosexuals and gay rights seem to come down to what they think is the reason that people are homosexual. Personally I just think that's how some people are, it's not a choice, so discriminating against them makes about as much sense as discriminating against left handed people. Others think that it is a choice and that choice is immoral. I once heard someone tell a friend of mine, whose brother is gay, that homosexuality was "just down the road from paedophilia". Amazingly no one got punched in the face.
Most mainstream religions have something to say about homosexuality, usually that God does not approve. Now the problem there is that it makes it difficult for those of a religious persuasion to accept that it is something that people just are. After all, if we are all created by God then why would he create people he does not approve of?
I'm not suggesting that religion is the sole cause of homophobia, there are plenty of people around who just don't like someone that is different or want someone hate/blame/beat up.
As for the marriage thing, I've been kind of baffled why that is such a massive issue in the US for a while now. I suspect it depends on how you view marriage and what role the people getting married, the state and the church play in it.
To me marriage is a commitment between two people who love each other, you don't need a church or the state for that part. It is also legal agreement that has some very real consequences involving pensions, taxes, insurance, inheritance, medical treatment, funeral arrangements and wills, that you need the state for. For a church ceremony and the blessing of the church, well you need the church.
No one can deny the first of those. To deny the second is flat out discrimination, blocking of those means that a group of people do not have the same legal rights as others. Denying the third, well good luck changing that, most mainstream churches still ban women from most positions. There are some churches that are ok with it and rebels, mostly in the US it seems, so maybe a glimer of hope.
There is no doubt that a lot of people have their lives made a misery, ruined or even ended just because they were gay, or just because people decided they were. That is unacceptable.
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/one-towns-war-on-gay-teens-20120202
Can we not just accept people for who they are? |
XTR3M3
Member
Posts: 2602
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Re: The Gay Rights Movement
Posted: Feb 8, 2012, 10:40:32
not agreeing with homosexuality is not homophobia. my brother is gay and I love him unconditionally. I don't agree with his actively having gay relationships but then again, he doesn't agree with me being a hunter. He doesn't believe in killing animals. I am not going to get rid of him because of one thing in his life I don't agree with anymore than he will get rid of me for the one thing in my life he doesn't agree with. We don't hate the people, we don't like the action. We also are not going to throw them away for one thing we don't agree with but we should not be forced to say it is right.
I would disagree with you about how people's views on homosexuality are based. For those of us who are Christians, it has nothing to do with whether or not they are born that way or choose it. It acting on it that is the issue. It is the same with adultery or any other sin. Some people are more disposed to cheat on their spouse. Others also have "open" sexual marriages. I know people like that. They call themselves "swingers". The church doesn't have a problem with people that have the tendency or are born that way, they have a problem with people actually acting on it. The "choice" isn't whether or not they are born attracted to the same sex or choose to be attacted to the same sex, the choice the church has a problem with is them actively choosing to act on that attraction and engage in relations. Non-Christians make that erroneous assumption all the time. It is the ACTION the church has a problem with. We all have flaws. Having the flaws is not a sin, acting on them is.
Churches that allow open practicing homosexuality are breaking with the Bible and compromising their doctrine. They should just break with the church then since they seem to want to just pick and choose which parts of the Bible they want and just dump the rest in the garbage and start their own religion without the Bible.
Why are the gays so hot to have church acceptance? A REAL church will never accept people openly sinning with no intention of stopping. It is not discrimination any more than it would be to say people openly committing adultury should be welcome. By the gay's own retoric, "two consenting adults should not be discriminated against." So if those two consenting adults just happen to be married to other people, should the church say that is OK too? If anyone thinks that is not a valid comparison, then you are a hypocrite. There are people that think the whole institution of marriage is archaic and should be abolished. Should the church be forced to accept that too? Two people living and sleeping together but not married is also wrong according to the church even if they are hetero. The church is consistant and doesn't discriminate against the person, but instead condemns the action.
Absolutely give them every legal right and let them have their legal government unions. The church shouldn't be forced to accept them sinning anymore then the church should be forced to accept adulterers sinning. People should really quit trying to convince the church that it is OK. What is mainstream in society does not make it right. That has been a problem for the church for millenia. Last Edited: Feb 8, 2012, 10:47:03
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