SpawnPoint - Where Game Begins

I find this whole thing nauseous. What a slap in the face to the people of New York that lost loved ones and the men and women that tried to rescue them. There are news reports that the building they want to buy actually had part of the landing gear of one of the planes that were crashed into the twin towers hit it. The Muslims say they want to create harmony and reach out to the community with this mosque.....are they freakin' stupid?!!! If they had any sensitivity at all and weren't completly selfish and self serving, they would not build it that close to the site of the greatest mass murder in American history perpatrated in the name of Islam...the faith they proclaim to serve.

The sad thing is, they might be completely oblivious and honestly want to spread good will but are so ingrained in the victim mentality that they can't see why 70% of us across America (not withstanding the most likey greater percentage in NY) think that is SERIOUSLY bad form to put it there. They can't see past their own perception that they are persecuted. It is as bad as erecting a shrine to Emperor Hirohito in Pearl Harbor in an attempt to share Japanese culture and good will. Hell, let's just put the statue right aboard the Arizona! Why not, we as Americans are suppose to accept everyone and not discriminate....sarcasm if you couldn't see it....

The perspective mosque site is said to be only about 600 feet away from ground zero.....that is LITERALLY in the shadow of the now destroyed twin towers.....and they call us insensitive......The politicians that are supporting this building site should be bitch slapped.

Should they be able to build their mosque? of course.... but only a bunch of insensitive, selfish bastards would build on that site that close to such an atrosity perpetrated in the name of the religion they serve when they don't HARSHLY condemn the rabid animals within their religion that did it. The lip service I have heard from these people about "they don't support what was done"....sounds just like that....lip service. I am not the only American that feels that way either....so do 70% of the rest of us....which would be about 250,000,000 others.

If they want Americans to embrace them, they need to get vocal and strenuously condemn this act and all other types of terrorism done in the name of Islam. The problem is that they don't vocally deal with these radical elements in their own faith without being pushed to do it. Only paying light, and I do mean light, lip service to not agreeing with the radicals only makes it seem to the rest of us that they secretly agree or support it. Is this the actual case? Probably not, but if they were truly wanting support, acceptance and good will...shouldn't they start being more vocal about the cancer spreading in their religion? Are all Muslims terrists? pfft! That is rediculous...of course they aren't. Are most of the worst terrorist acts being committed by self proclaimed Muslims? The numbers would support that. Until the Muslim leadership stands up and starts shouting down these radicals...this kind of back lash will probably continue. Perception is important in America and in lots of other countries around the world and until we can see that they are trying to stamp out large number of homicidal maniacs within their religion, the perception will continue to be that they are just looking the other way....best case scenario....or secretly support the views of the radicals.....whether that is true or not.

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So it would be alright if i erected a building in the middle of Islam by one of their ground zero that say "Get out of new york city Islamic people". And, they would alright with then? Even after the ridicule american's have shown tward's the Islamic nation, Religion, And they are just walk by like it's nothing.
It's hypocrisy on the Islamic people.

I know it sounds quite unfair to brand all as 1, But it's hard to swallow after the tragic event, It's hard to believe, let-alone trust the Islamic people.
It's like the Hispanic's that cross the boarder to get a job illegally. Not only did you break the law, You also screw over people's job. It's a double Negative problem.
If they really wanted to show us that they would like to show Harmony, 1st off DO NOT do it by the worst event in american history that your kind did (i don't mean that in a racial hate way just BTW) and expect us to let slide. It's Practically rubbing the event in our faces and laughing at us.
2nd, They need to do it elsewhere that doesn't harbor the event of 9/11 so we don't give them the evil eye or so it doesn't give us any bright idea.
If going to ground zero of 9/11 was their idea of sharing harmony with us. It's a bad one.

I am really tired of that kind of "tolerant" crap Tullsy. Them building a mosque there is the WORST kind of insensitivity and bad form. How would they like it if we put a Christian church next to a bomb damaged mosque in Iraq? The screams of insensitivity from EVERY Islamic nation, and I dare say, probably most of the rest of the world, would be LOUD AS HELL. The world leaders would condemn us as insensitive and callous. Have you even listened to the imam proposing this? This imam, Feisal Abdul Rauf, made this comment on 60 minutes..."U.S. foreign policy was an "accessory" to the Sept. 11 attacks". What a freakin's slap in the face to the New Yorkers and the rest of America! Yea....that sounds like all they want is to spread goodwill and reach out to the community.

My analogy comparing this mosque to putting the statue of the emperor Hirohito of Japan that perpatrated the attack on Pearl Harbor during WWII on the remains of the USS Arizona is an acurate one. If these muslims truly wanted good will, they would take up the governor's offer to find them a different site. They refused of course.

I am tired of the mealy-mouthed crap about being tolerant of this kind of thing. I bet those of you who are "tolerant liberals" that don't have any problem with this mosque's location and think they should be able to build it there would think differently if it was your wife, your father, your sister, ect. that had to jump out of one of the twin towers to their death because it was better than burning to death. I also bet you would have a different view if you had to watch untold tons of steel and concrete crush your fellow firefighters and police officers that tried to save people. I am shocked and appalled that people can show sympathy to the "plight of these muslims" and be callously dismissive of those who have had to suffer so much in New York. Don't bother trying to dispute this saying "I wouldn't think any different if I did have relatives die".....because if you didn't you can't know and you would just be spouting more BS.

Anyone that would support this mosque site disgusts me....and they can take their politically correct ideals and shove them right up their arse.
*sometimes I really like not having to be a representative of SP so I can express my true opinions...

*edit* had to add "mosque" to "mosque site" in my last sentence that starts "Anyone that would support..." to avoid confusion using the context of my last sentence to lead someone to beleive I was talking about the SP site instead of my actual intention, the mosque site.

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I can tell you that 90% of the population wouldn't give a damn. Why? Because they are rational, tolerant people. The group who you are referring to are known as the radicals and they are called as such for a reason. Not everybody in Afghanistan, Iraq and Iran are like them - they are disgusting, crude, vile people. However, and once again, you are putting all of Muslims and Islams into one group; this isn't right. I again bring in my analogy and, perhaps, fictitious anecdote about the Canadian in an airport with a gun. If he kills anybody, you would not blame Canadians, nor would you blame the person's religion. You would blame the guy. So, in this case, the case of 9/11, why are you blaming Muslims? I know a ton of well rounded, well educated and all around nice Muslims and Islamic people.

I know, this isn't the same as one man in an airport, and it is of bad taste to place a location of worship to the gods who, through living beings, carried out one of the greatest disasters in American history, but people have to stop blaming Iraqis and Afghans and start blaming those who are the real enemies of the state.

I'm not a liberal, I consider myself tolerant. It might be because of my country, but I think it's because I can think straight. I'm not saying that you're crazy or insane because you think that the location for this place of worship is ridiculous and a big mistake waiting to happen, but I think it's ridiculous that we're on the verge of asking for an exemption in the constitution so that a religious group can't build a church where they want.

Shift, you said it yourself. You answered your own question.


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You're right, they probably would be shot. But only by radicals.

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I never said I support it, and I respect your opinion. However, I find it a little odd that people still can't see the difference between radicals and everyone else. Ok, you're right, perhaps building a church in Iraq or whatever would exactly please the masses, but, in all fairness, they haven't been occupying our country for 9 years telling us how to run it.

If you weren't blaming all Muslims for the attack then why do you have a problem with them building the Mosque there? The people running it are not radicals, their aim is to show us that they are actually not all radicals.

Also, my analogy is sound. No one is telling people in Iraq how to live besides our own government. Nor do the majority of the Muslim population consider us infidels. It's all perspective. What you see in the news are extremists, people who put their god above their lives. Not everyone is like that, some people have a sense of what is right and what is wrong. Muslims don't try to convert the world - again, only the radicalists are attempting to do so by means of the sword.


Look, I'm not saying it's a great place to put that Mosque, however, as American's they have all the right to build that place of worship there. I'm not for condoning religion, I'm not a religious person, but I'm all for following the constitution.

the president supporting the mosque site is getting into the "seperation of church and state" that is supposed ot keep religion from effecting policy but i think obama made it clear he dont care about that part of the constitution probably cuz he is islamic!,which is where more BS is occuring cuz kids no longer do the pledge of allegiance in schools anymore cuz our politicians are dirty! i dont condone the mosque site 1 bit. it was ppl of middle eastern religion who did the 9/11 attacks and now ppl of middle eastern religion wanna build a religious relic less than 200 yrds from GZ that is not 1 bit politically correct despite a fair amount of our politicians being dirty as hell

No one is saying it is against the law to build it there. No one is saying it should be against the constitution....geez. That is not even the issue. The issue is that they SHOULD NOT build it there, not that they CAN'T. Why even bring that up? As Americans, according to our constitution... for you people blindly fixated on the constitution end of this.... we have every right to protest this...Just like a church or elementry school would protest a strip club being built in its shadow. Can the strip club be built there? If it meets building ordinances, sure. Should it be built there? Hell no. This mosque has driven back American perception of Islamic relations almost a decade to almost as bad as after 9/11. This thing caused so many problems I have come to the conclusion that the people responsible are either complete brain donors, or are doing this on purpose to cause more conflict. Those are the only 2 logical choices since it is/was obvious to anyone that building it that close would cause a s**t storm of bad publicity.

Here is the thing. The Islamic community and the rest of the world are hypocritical as hell if they support this site. (not the mosque itself, just this site) If it was America doing something like this, and there are far more Muslims than Americans, the world would be running forward to condemn us. For crying out loud, if you tried to impose a reverse situation in the middle eastern countries...you would be shot in the street or end up with a bag on your head in a terrorist video.

We all agree that they can build this mosque there according to the laws and the constitution. This is the United States and if you meet building codes and ordinances, you can build what you want. If any of you think that they SHOULD build that war trophy of theirs at that site instead of a site more respectful of the citizens of New York, I am going to quote myself again...

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If you are having trouble remembering who....I know old people's memories sometimes aren't very good.....scroll up. That is also a nice typical liberal response with those key words "hate" and "intolerance". It is not about hate....there is no hate...just a sense of WRONGNESS a LOT of Americans are feeling now about putting that there. The only legit questions you did ask are.... how far away is OK? ....and who would make that decision?....Those are actualy good questions. I don't have the answers for that as I am not there. For me I guess....a willingness by muslim leaders of this mosque to actually consider another place and to acknowledge that this site as insensitive would have done it. Then I could have argued FOR them instead of against them. I bet that would be enough for most Americans. Instead they call us bigots and haters and ram this thing through which just pisses us off.

That other mosque was built before 9/11 BTW which is why there is no s**t storm surrounding it. Nice try on that lame re-direct. I don't get why some of the other mosques are being protested in other places though. The people protesting all mosques might fit into a "hate" category, but don't try and ignorantly cram me and others opposing JUST THIS mosque site (and probably the timing of it) into that same category.

It always seems like we are suppose to turn the other cheek. I only have 2 and they are all used up.....unless you count my bum...both bum cheeks are for kissing and are held lovingly in reserve for those of you who think we are bigots for not wanting this mosque to go up "as is". I have articulated my position very well. Don't mistake my passion about this for hate. If all you see is hate and bigotry, buy a seeing eye dog quick because you are blind as hell.

*smiles* You do the very thing you accuse me of....you just do it sneakier and more "generalized", but you still do it. That "conservative" reference was good....."liberals" tend to be more closed minded than conservatives. They think others not subscribing to their "ideology" are stupic, ignorant, haters, whatever..... if you don't believe the way they believe and roll over and play dead any time there is a conflict, you are labeled as bigots or Neo-cons. I live in one of the most liberal areas of the US, right next to Evergreen state college....where the "Greeners" references come from. Being conservative or Libertarian (which more accurately describes me) here is looked upon as a form of disease. I don't understand why you and others try to misdirect my opinion about this mosque site as hate. As I have said before...I will CLEARY itemize it so that it will be OBVIOUS it is only about this mosque site, not the mosque itself.....

#1 I could care less that Muslims want to build another mosque. Pouring that kind of money into the building trades and local economy is a good thing.
#2 I don't hate anything. I do however passionately disagree with the placement site of this mosque.
#3 They clearly have the right to build where ever they can meet city ordinances and acquire the building permits.
#4 I am all for the government staying out of this issue. I don't want them to prevent this site from happening. Them getting invovled sets a dangerous precedent.
#5 I do want the Muslims themselves to not build it there but somewhere else to show they truly have goodwill and the community in mind as they claim. If they don't, they just will prove the insensitive claim I and others have put forward.

"4400 dead...ect...ect.." and yet "we" need to be different and take the high road.... Well, I am tired of taking the high road. The US made mistakes in the conflict after 9/11, but we HAD to respond. The Muslim leadership is making one right now with this mosque. They are building this in America. I guess I would like them to take the stance that we are expected to take with them and be more sensitive. Their unwillingness to do so while at the same time demanding that we do smacks of hypocrisy to me.

I thoroughly enjoy these debates. It wouldn't be any fun if we all agreed. I wasn't personally attacking you A, just overtly doing what you were subvertly doing.....

I beleive that this is really not the right thing to be building in such place, this actually anger's me that such a building will be built there. Not good at all.