Forum Home > Non-Gaming > Real Politik > ground zero mosque
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Re: ground zero mosque
Posted: Oct 5, 2010, 18:56:55
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Quote from Atrus 2010-10-05 18:24:21
I suspect everyone in this thread agrees it's a bad idea. My struggle, even with my own view, is why I think it's a bad idea.
You apparently missed my posts.

I can rant about this for hours, but I'm tired and I choose not to. Anyways, I digress and let's begin.

The fact is that there was already a Mosque at the World Trade Center site. It was in the 9th floor of one of the towers. So what's the big deal? In killing Americans, they killed their own.

Obviously, and I'm sorry if this comes out harshly, I mean no disrespect, people need to learn the difference between Islamics and radical Islamics (Muslims). The first group will invite you into their home, feed you, welcome you and treat you like a neighbor - regardless of who you are. The second group, on the other hand, the ones that devised and carried out a massacre on a stage thought flawless and secure, are the ones that you should be directing your anger and frustration towards. It's not fair, actually, what you're insinuating. Should they cancel the project because a couple Americans can't wrap their mind around the simple concept of religious toleration?

Nine years ago, a group of radical Islamics perpetrated the events of 9/11. A few years later, the London bombings. And even later, in India. Our world is paranoid. Afraid, if you will, of Muslims. But let me tell you this: they are normal people just like you and me - preaching to a different, and understanding, god. I made the point of building a church in Iraq or Afghanistan earlier in this thread to which the response was along the lines of "no, they would not like you building it there" and you're right. However, that's all they have ever known. Their schools don't teach tolerance. Their parents don't push religion the way our Fathers did. It's a different world over there - but it's made that way by the radicals.

Do you really think that people in Iraq feel safe living there? Even if the US pulled out today, they'd face prosecution, abductions and other acts of disgusting nature; all at the hands of the radicals.




Quote:
The easiest thing to do is to feel anger for 9/11. The most difficult thing to do when so outraged, is to understand who we are and what we stand for.

My struggle to understand - continues.

Well put, Atrus. It's difficult to let something of this nature pass - but it's something that must be done. We cannot live our entire lives in constant war and separation thus leaving a world divided for generations to come. It's paramount that we learn to understand who we are and who they are - and they, the group building the Mosque, mean no harm.
Re: ground zero mosque
Posted: Oct 5, 2010, 22:45:00
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Quote:


But let me tell you this: they are normal people just like you and me - preaching to a different, and understanding, god.


Actually, the Qur'an literally preaches violence against other religion and openly discriminates against womens rights.

“Whoever seeks other than Islam as his religion, it will not be accepted from him, and in the hereafter he will be with the losers” “Slay the idolators wherever ye find them, and take them captive, and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture as believe not in Allah nor the last Day…. Go forth, light-armed and heavy-armed, and strive with your wealth and your lives in the way of Allah!"

(Sura 9:5,29,41).

Thankfully the majority of Muslims come to rational and sane terms in such a developed and understanding world. However it the literal interpretation of this Qur'an can be found outside radical Islamics, where women are stoned to death in Pakistan, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Africa etc for crimes that disagree with religious preachings.

The other problem is radicals twisting and using the Qur'an to promote crazy fundamentalist beliefs, and some of the things they preach completely disagree with what the Qur'an says, but this does not change the fact that the Qur'an generally preaches ideas that the rest of religion disagrees with.

As I said earlier, freedom of religion is a Constitutional right, but just like the the Right to Bear Arms or any other right it should be regulated and/or restricted when for the benefit of a cohesive society. I think it is generally disrespectful to New Yorkers and those who have lost loved ones during and after 9/11 to go through with this, and that Mr. Abdul Rauf is fully aware of what he is stirring up.

Re: ground zero mosque
Posted: Oct 5, 2010, 22:50:20
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My apologies Tullsy, it's been a while here and I should have revisited the comments. Please insert 'most' between suspect and everyone.

I hear all that you say and agree with most of it. What troubles me is this lack of tolerance and understanding is a sickness that infects both cultures, and with this situation will likely lead to more death and suffering. I doubt "most' that have posted here know that the location in question has had a Mosgue open for business there for over a year now. All this stirred up by politics and the media.

I recently heard a story from a family friend who served in Afghanistan. It was the strangest thing he said, a young Afghan child caught in crossfie was accidently killed by American soldiers. No one knew who fired the shot, so three men of the recon unit went to the home of this child. They took sheep and some other insignificant offerings and tried to make amends.

To make a long story short, nothing they had to offer was wanted or accepted. Knowing the culture these three American soldiers as they were asked to leave simply said one word, Nanawatai. They were brought into the home, given food and drink, and they were forgiven.

I certainly don't expect anyone here to forgive what was done on 9/11. But it's like you suggest, let's make sure we know just exactly who our enemy is.
Last Edited: Oct 5, 2010, 22:55:13
Re: ground zero mosque
Posted: Oct 6, 2010, 11:21:16
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See, that's the thing, Atrus. None of us are bad people until we let a third party take over our better judgement.

I will admit openly that Religion sickens me. I don't believe in it nor will I ever - the concept behind it confuses me. However, that is my perspective, and it will stay as such - not to be openly and forcefully placed on anyone, but that doesn't mean I won't fight for the tolerance and understanding of different Religion.

Thank you, Shift (Shift? I can't remember and I'm not checking - two posts above me), for pointing that out. But the thing is, the Qu'ran != Allah or whatever God they preach. Those books were written by prophets and are, as a consequence, biased and written from the perspective of that person.


And you don't have to apologize, Atrus, it was more playful than anything.
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