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Disaster in the Gulf
Posted: Jun 16, 2010, 13:54:46
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Last night President Obama proposed a long-term plan on how he will go about solving the problem in the Gulf. I for one give Obama props. I was happy to see him address the nation and make us feel more united. I've heard several stories on when they think the spill will be fixed and so far most say that it won't be fixed until August or even September. It's very sad to see Louisiana suffer from yet another environmental catastrophe. I almost feel sorry for the people that choose to live there. Hopefully this problem will be solved long before August. Louisiana and the gulf coast are surely going to lose a lot of money from tourism.
Re: Disaster in the Gulf
Posted: Jun 17, 2010, 06:10:32
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I've just been reading about the possible long term effects of the spill in New Scientist. Apparently it all depends on the composition and amount of oil that reaches the coast, in particular the coastal marshes.

Previous spills show that the amount isn't the main thing when it comes to long term consequences. This spill is expected to be around 90-195 million litres, Exxon Valdez was 40 million litres and the area is still recoving. From that it might sound like this one will be far worse, however 5 years after the Ixtoc Well in Mexico spilled 530 million litres they "had to look hard to see any lasting effects". The Florida barge spilled 700,000 litres and the effects are still being felt 40 years later.

The difference between the previous spills is what was spilled and what kind of environments were effected. Exxon spilled heavy crude that coated rocks and inlets that were havens for seabirds and marine life and the cold conditions meant it took longer to break up. The Ixtoc well spilled light crude onto empty beaches where it degraded into a fairly harmless hard tar. The Florida barge spilled refined fuel oil that is particularly toxic onto sensitive salt marshes.

Some good news about the Deepwater Horizon spill is that it will be exposed to the elements for days or weeks before making landfall, meaning that the most toxic elements are likely to become greatly diluted or evaporate. The main concerns are for cold water coral, bluefin tuna as it's their spawning season and what will happen if the oil reaches the marshes or coastal estuaries. The marshes are already in trouble as a result of engineering projects that reduce the water they get and the coastal estuaries are nurseries for shrimp and a type of herring that are both key to the regions fishing industry.

One uncertainty is about the effects of the dispersent when combined with oil, while one study shows it shouldn't penetrate sedements deeply and should be easily removed, another shows that the combination of the two is more toxic to invertibrates than the oil alone would be.

There really needs to be a full review of all aspects of deep sea drilling. There was a very similar failure of the safety device on another rig not long before this one, and although the resulting spill was no where near as serious, that shows this isn't a one off freak accident. More and more drilling is being done at great depth, like some oil fields discovered off the Falkland Islands are around twice as deep as the Deepwater Horizon was drilling, so the industry definitely needs more safety features and a plan B if things go wrong. It's not just the oil industry that needs to change, the licensing requirements need to be much stricter, no more free passes.
Re: Disaster in the Gulf
Posted: Jun 18, 2010, 11:14:08
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All I can say is I wouldn't want to be BP or one of their investers right now......I bet the cost assessed to them will eventually exceed their net worth. Sometimes I a SOOOO glad I am not responsible for those kinds of decisions.
Re: Disaster in the Gulf
Posted: Jun 18, 2010, 11:59:00
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Yeah I agree with you X, there's a lot of blame put on certain people in BP. The pressure must be enormous. I for one would never be able to live up to such expectations.
Re: Disaster in the Gulf
Posted: Jun 19, 2010, 07:29:24
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Hayward's appearance before Congress yesterday was a very basic and effective legal strategy. His subsequent replacement also a calculated preventive legal measure. BP is certainly in a world of hurt, but as difficult as it may be to accept, until America modifies its consumption of energy the survival of the Gulf will be connected to drilling for oil. Most people don't realize just how many of the products and goods we use and buy every day are petro chemically manufactured. From the tires on your car, to plastics, to makeup, oil is everywhere.

We've all heard the conspiracy theories about top secret black budget projects, all the perceived advances in our technologies that make America and the free world so powerful... yet, we can't plug a hole. One would think, hope, that we would have a quick and certain fix for the leak and for the clean up. But we don't, and this should be of great concern to everyone. No one wants to speak of it, or admit to it, certainly not BP, but this is without question the single worst environmental and ecological disaster in the history of mankind. And if it's not stopped, and soon, it will be pulled into the loop current working its way around Florida, up the East Coast, and yes even out into and across the North Atlantic. What we don't know is, it may already be too late to prevent that from happening. Especially with the advent of hurricane season and it's unpredictable effects on the Gulf.

Problem for me is, I'm one of those folks who suspects that our government already has the answer to our energy needs. After all the years of spending and whispers there has to be some military black project out there that could be modified to meet the civilian demands of the worlds consumption of energy. Problem is, we'll never know about it because of national security interests. The question then becomes at what point does our need for new resources qualify as a national security interest? I submit we're there already.

Mankind is like a spinning top. We rotate comfortably, spinning on the pinpoint of our technologies. All of our systems for power, transportation, communication, the economy, how we feed ourselves, and even good governance are that pinpoint. Are we close, is this spill a sign. Throughout history, every great civilization has left us the bones and ruins of their attempt to master their technologies. As much as I would hope otherwise, I feel that we've learned little from those who've gone before us?

There's a storm coming.
Re: Disaster in the Gulf
Posted: Jun 19, 2010, 12:21:47
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My fear has been for years that we are fast approaching "peak oil" if we haven't reached it already. The problem I see stems, from what I perceive, from the government being in bed with big oil....yes the Dems too. The other problem is that these "super corporations" often times seem to have more power and resources than the Federal Government itself....which scares the hell out of me. It is bad enough having a power hungry government in charge, but at least they make attempts to help our people. Big corporations like BP could give two craps about us, they only care about their profit margin, stock value and if they will be able to pay good dividends to their stockholders. The false empathy they "feel" or show for the people in the Gulf smacks to me of a criminal only expressing remorse when they are caught. They gambled drilling a well that deep, "doubled down on 12" so to speak, and got a face card. Now they are trying to do damage control, both financial and political.

I hear a lot about how this is American's fault for consuming too much petroleum products. To that I say BS. What choice do we have? I can't buy a vehicle that will serve my business that doesn't run on gas or diesel. Boeing and even Airbus don't make electric jumbo jets. The transportation of a large amount of the goods in the US is by semi truck which I don't know of any really that don't run on diesel. How many "green options" do transportation companies have for that?

I recycle, use the canvas type store brand bags you can buy for my groceries, don't drive places that aren't necessary, maintain my vehicles to get maximum gas mileage, use wood heat in the winter, buy in bulk when feasible, make vehicle purchases based on dependablitiy and gas mileage, ect. I believe most Americans are doing that as well.....some maybe out of financial necessity....but doing it none the less. I don't think it is fair to lay this on the Americans themselves, but on big business and government that we really don't have much say in who runs either. The big corps choose their own and the only choice we get in government is what the Dems and Reps choose with an independent thrown in occasionally as a "sacrificial lamb". Both the corps and the government do whatever the hell they want. The only way either listens is if you have enough money or a big enough, loud mouthed, group that can hurt them politically or financially. Other than that, you(we) get ignored.

There is a storm coming for sure. I think the first indication of when it is at our shores will be when they admit peak oil, if they will. If you think our, and the world's, economy is bad now, wait until the world figures out that we are on the downhill side of petroleum availability. Right now I feel sorry for my, and everyone else's, kids. They are the ones that will have to pick up the pieces.
Re: Disaster in the Gulf
Posted: Jun 19, 2010, 13:00:53
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According to a lot of experts we've already passed or reached peak oil production. Obviously there are a lot of people with a vested interest in not admitting that, but the evidence is there when you look at the depths they drill to, how they are planning to drill even deeper and how they are now exploiting deposits like tar sands that were until recently financially unviable.

When it comes to blame I'd prefer to wait until the causes can be properly investigated. BP are paying for the clean up as they should, but they aren't the only company involved with that platform or with questions to answer. One of the companies that owns 25% of the platform came out and layed the blame directly at BPs door, saying they were "reckless". Not sure what to make of that since the platform is owned by someone else, operated by haliburton and seems to have met all legal criterea (pretty sure that's all correct). Maybe it was all BP's fault, maybe it was all one guys fault, but we won't know just yet.

I wouldn't blame the American people for wanting oil, it's not like they're the only ones and like Marty said, it's not exactly a choice at the moment. I just hope that this happening on their doorstep makes people pause and consider their long term energy requirements and dependence on oil.

Corporations don't feel guilt, their only concern is the balance sheet and pleasing shareholders, everything they do is simply to make profit. That's just what they are, it's how our economy works. We even rely on it, if you have a pension or savings then the chances are that some of it is invested in BP. It may be called British Petrolium but 40% of the shareholders are from the US, the company is so huge that if you destroy it then millions of people around the world stand to lose huge sums. The sort of good news is that they are so huge they can provide vast sums of cash to clean up the mess.

The long term effects aren't clear for the area, obviously it's bad but there are huge degrees of bad. It may be that the area recovers quickly and that the most sensitive areas are well protected, or it could be the worst environmental disaster ever. Either way it's going to be a test for the oil industry, if the most powerful nation and one of the biggest corporations in the world can't stop something like this then there are going to be some serious questions about the future of drilling for oil.
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