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Terror on Trial
Posted: Nov 14, 2009, 11:06:57
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Associated Press: Updated 4:46 p.m. ET, Fri., Nov . 13, 2009 WASHINGTON - "In the biggest trial for the age of terrorism, the professed 9/11 mastermind and four alleged henchmen will be hauled before a civilian court on American soil, barely a thousand yards from the site of the World Trade Center's twin towers they are accused of destroying. Attorney General Eric Holder announced the decision Friday to bring Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and four others detained at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, to trial at a lower Manhattan courthouse. It's a risky move. Trying the men in civilian court will bar evidence obtained under duress and complicate a case where anything short of slam-dunk convictions will empower President Barack Obama's critics..."

Thought I'd check in here to see if there were any opinions on this development. The political right says it's a bad thing for America, that Holder is giving civilian rights and the benefits of our legal system to terrorists... the left argues that after eight years of Bush, the Iraq lie, torture, poor foriegn relations, etc., we need to show the world some true American justice.

For me, my first thought is simply a bullet behind the ear for each of them. But, if I were one of the 9/11 survivors or family members I think I'd like to witness and be a part of American justice being served on those who would attack our home land and take away our loved ones. Stand the gallows up where the Twin Towers fell?

A very intersting socio-political mix of pros and cons on this one.
Last Edited: Nov 14, 2009, 11:30:18
Re: Terror on Trial
Posted: Nov 26, 2009, 17:23:02
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Giving them American style justice is the warm and fuzzy thing to do. Any punishment in line with our justice system will only make them a martyr and a hero in the eyes of the other raving lunatics.....especially if it is done publicly. Hang them where the twin towers used to be? That would be in every terrorist training film and motivational speech for the next 100 years....not a great idea. I think that they have perpetrated an act of war on our country and are no longer deserving of anything even remotely humane. I also think the punishment should involve factors that made up the motivation of this crime. I am not going into details as closed minded and surface looking people will mistake it for racism....either out of ignorance or a knee-jerk reaction. I think that any punishment should fit the crime. If the punishments are bad enough and crime motivated specific, I believe that only the most rabid and unthinking of criminals will commit them. That should narrow how many are willing some at least. The thing that worries me about a trial is that some law firm looking to make a name for themselves would take this on and win....even partially. Our justice system is broken and good lawyers will have this being America's fault somehow. I point to the OJ Simpson trial for example...he was guilty as hell. It was proven in civil court because a lot of the evidence that wasn't allowed in criminal due to slick lawyers is in civil court. I can just see a slick lawyer getting the whole 9/11 footage and leftover destruction thrown out for some stupid, broken justice system rule. I have heard people say that these terrorists have rights too and they are human too. I want to disagree on both counts. Terrorists shouldn't have any rights nor are they human. Demons in human form don't count. I think they should privately flush those turds down the toilet and just tell the public and the world "It was taken care of". With lack of evidence of their punishment and imagining what the US could have done to them "behind the scenes", it will be harder to make them martyrs due to their punishment too. We don't need them to be bigger martyrs than they already are. *edit* I am sorry this is jumbled into one big crap paragraph but I am tired of trying to separate it out and just have it get posted as one big lump. It wasn't like this when I posted it and after 2 attempts to fix it, I am sorry to say that you will just have to live with it like it is.
Last Edited: Nov 26, 2009, 17:25:09
Re: Terror on Trial
Posted: Nov 28, 2009, 20:47:42
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I don't know... a year ago I would agree with 90% of what you say, but lately I've come to realize I'm tired of being told to be afraid. If we do this, they will think that... if we say that, they'll do something like feel empowered. Tired of being told that we have to change who we are because of some twisted group of power hungry fanatics. And yes, tired also having to demonize those who inflict injury and loss of life and property on our citizens. Nothing special or demonic about this brand of evil, except perhaps that it is a formidable opponent.

Yes, our criminal justice system is broken. But like so many other things here, at its worst it is the very best there is. It is a part of who we are and what once was this beacon that made US different. And I'm tired of being told that we should fear, to fear what might be said, or done. When did we forget who the "F" we are?

We live in a free and open society, we can hop in a car or bus and travel state to state without any border crossing guards, and we can even drive into and out of Canada or Mexico with little trouble. As long as we choose to live with these freedoms we will be vulnerable to those who would do us harm. Nothing that has been done in the past eight years can or will change that. What we can do now, is change how things are done going forward. Perhaps something as simple as to focus on who we are and in doing so put aside all this fear will make a difference. We're going to be hit again. Not a question of if, but when. Fear isn't going to change that, and neither will a public trial. What it will do is show who we are and what we stand for. That even the worst acts are given the full measure of American justice.

Right or wrong, win or lose -- this system is a part of what we fight to protect, and should never fear to use. Because at the moment we fear to use our systems, we change who we are and what we stand for. In that fear we are diminished, and they have by fear alone won a victory over our way of life.

Now on to more important matters... regarding the text editor. When you put your text in try pushing the blue arrows to go back and forth. That should auto adjust the text so that it appears in the window as it will on the forum page.
Last Edited: Nov 28, 2009, 23:15:17
Re: Terror on Trial
Posted: Nov 29, 2009, 01:20:11
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It's going to be a circus.

You should be proud of your justice system, you should be proud that it applies to everyone. Should it be different for some because they hate your country? Who they killed? How many they killed? Why they killed? No. The same justice for all.

Set an example, show the World how you do things, give them an example to follow.
Re: Terror on Trial
Posted: Nov 30, 2009, 03:34:31
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I would agree with you to a point Phil....but those wastes of skin who attacked us/might attack us in the future should not get rights. It is like the psycho who just walked into a coffee shop here today and shot 4 unsuspecting police officers here without cause and without warning. They both should be put down like the rabid animals that they are....no fanfare....no remorse...no special proceedings....just euthanized like they would a rabid dangerous dog. Humans that commit such acts of atrocity should lose their human status. They act like feral animals, put them down like feral animals. Giving them a trial and a public execution gives them something.....which is different for each one depending on the motivation and the thought processes of each individual. As far as I am concerned about the terrorist bombers.....strap cell phone linked bombs to THEIR ASS and drop them like a smart bomb on their own training centers and "Make the call". At least they will have done one productive thing in their life. It would be much cheaper than a real smart bomb. I am against spending the money to provide a trial and publicly hang terrorists. A trial and public execution would be HUGELY expensive. Give that money to the victims fund or to veterans that are disabled. If you are against executing them, put them in general population of one of our nastiest prisons.....there they will understand what it feels like to be a victim. If they don't make it out alive...welll...more oxygen for the rest of us who have chosen to live like human beings. Off with their head!!! (with a rusty butter knife) *I am not going to code my own posts...when they fix the problem, my posts should show up right...until then you guys will just have to read them like this...I don't have "blue arrows" either*
Last Edited: Nov 30, 2009, 03:36:07
Re: Terror on Trial
Posted: Nov 30, 2009, 12:52:28
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this is a part of the letter that i am actually formulating to send to our president and my home state senators




Mohammed
is the terrorist who claims full responsibility for the horrible acts
committed on 9/11. He is not a U.S. Citizen. He, as well as his
followers and those he takes orders from, has declared a war on our
country in the name of their twisted religious beliefs. They have
devoted their lives to carrying out these crimes against us with
sheer hatred and aggression. The atrocities that were committed on
that day in New York City, were no more acts of war than the attack
on Pearl Harbor. This man is a criminal of war. He is not a common
criminal. He is not some shoplifter that gets the benefit of trial
by jury. Nowhere in the Constitution of the United States does it
guarantee the right of a trial to a non-citizen. Why is the attorney
general being allowed to punish the citizens of this country by
parading this terrorist through the very area where he killed more
than three thousand Americans? Why is the attorney general being
allowed to punish the citizens of this country by using our hard
earned tax dollars to give this terrorist a trial in our courts?
This is an outrage! We are displaying nothing short of weakness to
those who hate us by doing this. Why are we rewarding people from
other countries who commit war crimes against us with the benefits of
citizen? Why are we telling the people of foreign countries who hate
us, “Attack us and you will get an American trial”? Never before
has this been done, and there is a reason for this. It is dangerous
to the security of our country. It sets a more than dangerous
precedent for future war criminals that are caught in the field. How
is our military supposed to interrogate those enemies caught in the
field if they are not sure if the captives will get a trial in our
courts? This Mohammed scum was not Mirandized. How do you think
this will look in a federal court? Everything he has told us, all of
the information that he has given us will be inadmissible based on
this. What a terrible thing it would be if this vermin was acquitted
because of legal technicalities that don't exist in military
tribunals. One could foresee this country becoming very unstable if
this were to happen. He gets to spend his blood money to pay an
American lawyer to defend him. I thought we didn't do business with
terrorists. Why not avoid all of these possibilities? Why not do
the right thing and try this terrorist by a military tribunal? Why
buck what has worked with every prisoner of war we have ever had? Is
it because the government is pandering to the rest of the world? Is
it because the government is more worried about appearance than what
is just? Is it because the government is hopeful that it might
somehow gain some kind of acceptance from the world of Islam if we
treat this monster as a citizen? You know what I say? Who cares.
Who cares what the brood of terrorists known as the middle east
thinks? This great nation was built on the backs of those who didn't
apologize for being uniquely American. We have had thousands of
brave people die before us so that we could live in the best nation
in the world. We became this great nation because we do things
differently. It is time for the rest of the world to accept that we
are America, and we will not be told how to do things. The rest of
the world will get over their hurt feelings. Everyone likes to hate
America until they need us. So they will get over it. I pray that
the government is not wasting our tax money on this terrorist merely
so that we look good to the rest of the world. I hope that the
government will see that marching this man into the middle of
Manhattan is doing nothing more than pouring salt into the wounds of
this country. Earlier this month, our country celebrated our triumph
over this man by the maiden voyage of the U.S.S. New York. I have a
close friend who was on that ship. It was a day of atonement for
this country. We said to the world, “We take your ugliness, and we
create beauty.” If we allow this monster to parade through the
very streets he tried (and failed) to destroy, we are telling those
who lost their sons, daughters, wives, husbands, parents, and
friends, “Your loss is not as important as our desire to look good
to those who took everything from you.” How dare this even be
considered? It is shameful, really, and a crime in itself
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