Mr-Me-II
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Posts: 2147
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Gun Control?
Posted: Aug 23, 2008, 15:40:46
Here's one I don't think has been done before....Gun Control!
You you support the right to bear arms?
Do you believe strict gun control will help stop violent crimes?
Personally I think everyone has the right to own or carry a firearm under the right conditions. It has been shown many (many many many) times that limiting or restricting firearm ownership does nothing but increase crime. Quote from an article I read this morning (linked at the end of this post) :
Quote: Vermont has the least restrictive gun-control law. It recognizes the right of any Vermonter who has not otherwise been prohibited from owning a firearm to carry concealed weapons without a permit or license. Yet Vermont has one of the lowest crime rates in America, ranking 49 out of 50 in all crimes and 47th in murders. I live in Illinois, one of the only 2 states where unfortunately it is against the law to carry a firearm in any condition, and a permit cannot be purchased. I also live in a County within the state where I cannot purchase any "assault rifle" so called by the media, AR-15 style rifles (which are semi automatic) or any rifle with a detachable box magazine that can hold more than like 5 rounds...which limits me to WWII era rifles. I think it is VERY unfair, for example, that the Chicago Mayor has bodyguards who are armed with modern weapons, 24/7, while the average man or woman on the street would face felony charges if he or she had one for defense.
Think about it. Making it illegal to own a gun...would that really stop the criminals from getting a gun? Or does it just stop the law-biding citizen from defending themselves against the criminal. Drugs are illegal, does that stop anyone? If making things illegal actually stopped crime, wouldn't our prisons be EMPTY?
One of the gun control laws I do 100% agree with is waiting periods. I think it would be irresponsible to let someone buy a gun on the spot. I think waiting periods between 3 days and a week are defiantly a good idea, in case for example someone gets fired and wants revenge, he will have some time to THINK about it before shooting up the place. I also think fully automatic weapons are probably a bad idea and should be limited to police and military use only. There is no reason to own something that can pump out 800 bullets in a minute, you will never be mugged by an entire army.
I read a very interesting article on this topic this morning
Can Gun Control Reduce Crime? Part 1
Thoughts?
EDIT: 2400th post :D |
ActionJester
Member
Posts: 358
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Posted: Aug 23, 2008, 16:59:49
Very Good Post.
I agree totally with you on most of the topics. The waiting period is the most effective way to check someone's history before selling them a firearm. However, a clean history does not always enforce that the person will have a good history after weapon purchase. Although there is no way to really enforce that, the fact of the matter is that the person who purchases the gun can use it for activities ranged from recreational shooting to committing mass murder.
I also agree on the FAM idea. There is no reason any person would need a FAM for any circumstance. I would however like to mention that I believe that our Armed Forces members should have the option to purchase any FAM at their discretion for use in the field. |
L4rk3m0n
Member
Posts: 669
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Posted: Aug 23, 2008, 18:58:26
As has been proven in the UK/EU and lots of other countries, people can get hold of guns if they really try hard enough.
You just need to know the right people im guessing, you will find a gun on the blackmarket easily.
Its like anything such a narcotics, people will always find a way to get what they want, so strict gun control wont do anything imo. People will still go out and commit violent crimes with weapons tbh. |
Mr-Me-II
Member
Posts: 2147
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Posted: Aug 24, 2008, 05:35:21
Wheres the discussion...don't just pop in vote and leave, voice your opinion!:ban: |
Alpha
Board Admin
Posts: 8217
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Posted: Aug 24, 2008, 09:11:24
*sigh* my bad...
I do believe strict control will help reduce gun crime but of course it will never stop it entirely. As previously mentioned, I imagine guns are quite readily available on the black market.. however, at a price!
It is illegal to own or possess firearms in the UK, I think there maybe one or two exceptions where licenses can be obtained. Whilst gun crime may be lower in the UK because of the restriction, knife crime is on the increase, a massive increase.
I answered no, because strict control will never STOP gun related crime.
Also lets not forget that whether defending yourself or not, a gun crime is a gun crime and anyone commiting such an offence will generally be punished accordingly. |
deathscythe04
Member
Posts: 1291
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Posted: Aug 24, 2008, 19:04:05
gun control wont help because criminals will do what criminals do and want..... meanin they will obtain what they want when they want where they want and what ever cost it takes |
kennh
Member
Posts: 257
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Posted: Aug 25, 2008, 01:00:23
Don't need gun control
....
Just stop making guns
OR
Give everyone in the world a copy of CS so they can shoot each others brains without getting arrested |
Mr-Me-II
Member
Posts: 2147
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Posted: Aug 25, 2008, 01:31:26
Good luck telling that to all the armies of the world :o
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cpnichol
Board Admin
Posts: 5684
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Posted: Aug 25, 2008, 14:18:01
I really don't understand this obsession you seem to have with guns in the US.
As for the question the only answer is no, gun control won't stop gun crime totally, especially in a country that is awash with guns already like the US. Guns are pretty much illegal in the UK and we still get gun crime, mostly from illegally held guns but our 2 worst gun massacres (Hungerford and Dunblaine) were done with legally owned weapons. They are the main reasons we have such stict gun control.
The increase in knife crime in the UK raises and interesting point, would the sort of person who will walk up to someone and stick a knife in them also be the type of criminal that would want to own and use a gun? I think they would, stabbing someone is a lot messier and riskier way to try to kill someone than pointing a gun at them. That suggests to me that guns aren't as easily available in the UK as we are being told and that our gun control laws are keeping guns out of the hands of at least some criminals.
Gun control needs to have a point, no point restricting access to guns if it doesn't solve any of the gun related problems. So if you have strict gun control but do nothing about the illegal guns and have an active black market in guns, you will acheive very little.
There are some very serious problems caused by guns and gun control can reduce these if properly used and implemented. |
Raven
Member
Posts: 6455
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Posted: Aug 25, 2008, 14:49:16
I agree with Phil....
No "weapon" control will ever really stamp out crime using it.
We have a really strict gun control policy over here and yet, gun crime is still fairly common.
Knife crime is massively on the increase here and I get the feeling that, if we weren't as strict with our gun laws, numerous of these crimes would end up as gun crimes. |
XTR3M3
Member
Posts: 2602
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Posted: Aug 25, 2008, 15:23:08
The thing that always slays me is people that think guns are the problem. People were murdering other people eons before guns were invented. I doubt someone was running around in King Arthur's time saying they were anti-bow and arrow. Raven's post says it all....knife crime is on the rise....so have the UK ban knives or put strict control on that.:cool: Then it would be stick beating would be on the rise....and then...and then...
No gun, knife or bow and arrow ever jumped up off a shelf, went looking for someone and "pulled their trigger" all by themselves. Sex and automobiles kill more people in the US then guns do. Do we ban those? Let's just bubble wrap everyone and take all sharp objects away. pfft!
I am for stricter gun ownership laws that make it more difficult for people that shouldn't have guns to get them. I also support REALLY harsh penalties for those that illegally have guns. People that follow all the gun laws have never been the problem. Our country was founded with these rights and the founders believed it so important that the only ammendment to the constitution they felt was more important was free speech.
Most people that are for blanket gun control fall into one or both of 2 categories: Afraid and/or ignorant. Too many of them make up their mind based on movies or the sensationalist media whose motto is "If it bleeds, it leads"....or are afraid the "boogyman" is going to come shoot them.
I personally have 4 pistols and 4 rifles. I use them responsibly. My friends use theirs responibly. We will report people that are using a gun dangerously.
To close, an old saying comes to mind; "It is better to have them and not need them, than it is to need them and not have them." |
Fat-Tony78
Member
Posts: 386
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Posted: Aug 25, 2008, 16:04:41
If people are going to stop killing with guns? Then what other sick way are their twisted minds going to come up with? Maybe going back to torture days? Or worse than that? Personally i think one shot to the head to finish is much less painful than other things that could happen. And i agree with what Xtr3m3 says; nobody will be able to baby proof the world though. |
edge
Global Moderator
Posts: 1155
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Posted: Aug 25, 2008, 20:21:15
I agree.. an alternative weapon would be found quickly enough..
What do you think triggers the need for someone to take the life of another ? |
XTR3M3
Member
Posts: 2602
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Posted: Aug 26, 2008, 01:50:13
Quote: What do you think triggers the need for someone to take the life of another?
THAT is a good question. Probably deserves to have it's own thread though. Discussing it would take this thread too far off topic. |
White-Pinnacle
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Posts: 1056
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Posted: Aug 31, 2008, 06:07:26
I have 5 firearms in my cabinet. None of them can be used for hunting. I'm a law abiding citizen and have a concealed weapons permit. I can't remember the last time I carried my pistol on me. I opened the gun cabinet about 2-3 months ago just to make sure my weapons didn't rust out which reminds me that I need to oil them a bit.
There are some really really bad people out there in the streets. I can't imagine being in Mississippi/Louisiana coast post Katrina. I spoke to some co-workers and they mentioned firefights in the days following the hurricane. If my family was threaten with bodily harm in our home I think I would do what is necessary to protect my family. Banning guns now will just turn the market underground in the U.S. It won't work. There's too many guns out there. I remember living in the Inland Northwest (Washington and Idaho) and the various white supremacist and anti-government groups . . . what a bunch of nut jobs. Freaked me out and I ended up buying an AK-47. When I bought the rifle the seller asked if I wanted the auto conversion kit . . . I declined. Eventually, I got rid of the AK and bought a Colt AR-15. I would love to own an automatic weapon i.e. MP-5 or select fire M-16/M4 rifle . . . they cost too much money! I know someone at work who got a full auto AK-47 from Afghanistan.
Bottomline, if someone broke into my home I wouldn't have time to get my "guns" as they are locked up. I would either use my Mag-Lite or baseball bat or the kitchen knife.
The criminals need to be kept off the streets and that means enforcing current laws and keeping them incarcerated. Not enough prison space so these scum sucking maggots are back on the streets unfortunately.
White Pinnacle |
XTR3M3
Member
Posts: 2602
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Posted: Aug 31, 2008, 15:59:41
Quote: if someone broke into my home I wouldn't have time to get my "guns" as they are locked up.
I was just thinking about that the other day. I have 2 small children now, ages 9 and 5. This means my guns are locked up so tight they squeek. I would NEVER have time to get at them. What I do have available is my folded tool steel katana. I think if a criminal had a choice, I believe they would rather be shot then "sample my skills" with my "that's not a knife, here's a knife".
Unfortunately, responsible gun ownership means having your guns very inaccessable. This also means that they will be very hard to steal. I too had a CWP (concealed weapons permit) but let it expire because I never carry anymore. Short of a gang attack, I can use other skills to deal with a situation.
Maybe that is part of the problem. Some people these days will go to the extreme to deal with a situation....meaning grabbing a gun....instead of using just enough to deal with the situation or asking for help from the authorities. Another example of people not thinking results in the high speed car chases you see on shows like "Cops". Those are deadly choices using a vehicle. Vehicles are very convienent to steal, even easier than a gun and can do FAR more damage. I ask again, ever hear of people chanting montras about banning the car? No, not unless it is from a pollution standpoint. |
boingonut1
Member
Posts: 14
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Re: Gun Control?
Posted: Aug 19, 2010, 21:51:58
I agree with you on gun control.
I dont think that it is right to take away our constitutional right to bear arms.
ESPECIALLY sence it isn't that hard to get guns on the black market or from other countrys.
We normal citizens will be left defensless when a bunch of idiotic people come rushing through our doors with weapons.
to state a famous quote " guns don't kill people, people kill people." |
shift944
Board Admin
Posts: 475
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Re: Gun Control?
Posted: Aug 20, 2010, 01:46:40
Quote: Our country was founded with these rights and the founders believed it so important that the only amendment to the constitution they felt was more important was free speech. Quote:
The Bill of Rights is what has made America what it is. Our second amendment, as well as all the other of course, demonstrates to such an extent the meaning of freedom that most people don't understand it's importance and that it is truly something worth dying for. It was a responsibility and privilege that was felt deserved 300 years ago, and it continues to be to this day.
I don't know about other states, but here in NJ the application and purchase process is quite lengthy. Depending on what you and how your background checks out, it can take up to 4 months (which it shouldn't, but it does) to get a permit. (18 years of age for rifle, 21 for handgun) The permit requires the local or state issuing PD to run criminal and mental health background checks. Upon purchasing a weapon you have to be cleared again by New Jersey State Police down in Trenton.
When I was 5 years old, my home was burglarized. 2 weeks ago a very good friend of mine had his house broken into and HIS 5 and 7 year olds had to experience the same thing I did. 3 days ago, my next door neighbor had their house broken into. I don't live in a high crime area, it is anything but that, but it does happen. I also live where its not uncommon to have a 500lb bear staring through your back porch window, or a pack of coyotes waking you up at 3AM. Not to mention a mountain lion 2 years ago (yes in upstate NJ its hard to believe) which was hunted down for about a week before they caught it.
For these reasons among other things, I own a rifle myself, and there are two handguns in the house as well. Every person that lives in this house knows how to operate the weapons and where they are stored, and what to do if there is an emergency. We have lock safes, but they don't prevent us from gaining quick access to the weapons.
Gun control isn't the solution, but regulation and a purpose to owning one needs to grant you reason. If your reason is to protect your family from a gang, you deserve that right. If you want to go to the range just to work on qual practice, you deserve that right. If you want one to hold up a gas station to steal cigarettes and beer, then you'll find yourself in prison for a long time. |
deathscythe04
Member
Posts: 1291
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Re: Gun Control?
Posted: Dec 11, 2010, 22:44:31
bump: Gun Control will only hurt Law Abiding citizens. Here in North Dakota You need a CWP to carry a CW. Violent crimes and break ins are not known here, if they do they are not reported on. Here alot of ppl have guns. |
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