Georgian war

[volmer]

First off, NO I'm NOT talking about Georgia in United States.

Russia has invaded Georgia, claiming to be peacekeepers. Recent news show that the peacekeepers are already moving in to attack their capitol city.

Here are some links for you:
Russian troops invade Georgia and take the city of Gori - Times Online
BBC NEWS | Europe | Russian troops in Georgia advance
BBC NEWS | Europe | Thousands forced to flee Georgia (notice bombing of civilian buildings)

Opinions, comments?

[sulli456]

i heard on the news this morning about george bush saying about it i wasnt listening entirely but i think america are going to join in the war to help georgia (so they will be fighting russia)

And as far as i am concerned this will be a bad idea because england seem to enjoy going along and helping out america in wars such as with iraq and i don't know why. Iraq as far as i know had nothing to do with england.

But remember this is from what i heard of the news i was busy at the time.

[zol]

Originally Posted by sulli456

i heard on the news this morning about george bush saying about it i wasnt listening entirely but i think america are going to join in the war to help georgia (so they will be fighting russia)

And as far as i am concerned this will be a bad idea because england seem to enjoy going along and helping out america in wars such as with iraq and i don't know why. Iraq as far as i know had nothing to do with england.

But remember this is from what i heard of the news i was busy at the time.

USA will not be joining the fighting. You're completely misinformed. No matter how dumb Bush is, USA will not attack the only country that can wipe them off the Earth. It just WILL NOT happen. If Georgia was an official member of NATO, then that would be a different story, but as of now the USA will not be helping.

Iraq had nothing to do with the USA either.

[nasty]

i hear they pulled out of georgia. this true?

[Raven]

No Nasty it's not. The Russians are withdrawing to a specific point but have still "occupied / liberated" south Ossetia province.

On one hand I blame the Georgian government for starting the "mini-war" in the first place by trying to quell the so called rebellion.

However, you must wonder how the russians managed to deploy so many top of the line main battle tanks so quickly to a region renowned for being peaceful......

On a side issue Georgia nad the US have been very close allies for some time so it was only a matter of time before Bush got involved. The main oil pipeline to the west runs through southern Georgia and i'm pretty sure thats one of the reasons the French president also got involved.

Also, zol, I think your over estimating the "Russian" military might these days. Russia is NOT the full USSR any more and even the russian military might is spread pretty thin on the ground over a massive area these days....

Rob

[SaPpHiRe]

I have a Russian friend, and this is what he had to say about it:

Now with my opinion. Russia is not the bad guy, Georgia is big time. Its a process for them to do to get into NATO. MEDIA is lying and not stating 100% facts. I have Russian friends and they have other friends right now in the conflict. From what they tell me is that media is very BIAST against Russia. They are putting lies in wikipedia or incorrect information. WIKIPEDIA can and is manipulated by people that send in info. So you cannot go by what they say as of what i now know and understand.

Now the reason i say Russia is not the bad guy is not because im Russian which i am that but because Georgia broke peace deal and launched a dirty MAJOR slaughterfest against Russian unarmed civilians and peace keepers that live there in South Ossatia. Georgian troops commited geonocide to the extreme, and a reflection of suddam hussein and what he did to his people( CNN,BBC,ABC, dont cover that story). A US citizen that was on vacation over there in South Ossatia and witness alot of innocent people getting slaughtered overnight. People got blocked and ran over by Georgian tanks. People had grenades thrown at them while they were asleep. Theres a video on youtube of the US citizen that is from Florida and he explains it all. He explaines how Bush and the media are corrupted and support Georgia just because they want to be part of NATO. Its like it was planned out once again.

In order to be part of a NATO you have to have a full country that is pure with out other citizens from other nation like Russia which that is occupied in that provice in Georgia. Georgia had to do what it had to do but failed and its PAYING the price with its own peoples blood. It was not Russia who attacked first. Only Russia did was peacekeep the provice of Georgia, South Ossatia so that it maintained Georgia from becoming part of NATO. Georgia probably hampered the deal to become part of NATO as it launched a MAJOR offensive with out letting NATO or notification of some kind. I dont really know much about it but there are rules that have to be taken for all NATO countries to attack some interests.

Russia vowed that it will defend its citizens but it came to late as Georgia broke the peace deal and lauched the offensive with out Russia knowing in order to take South Ossatia. This is sad and resulted 2,000 civilian deaths and counting!

I hope US military dont get involved or any other NATO countries. If so this may ignite world war 3.

I got a bulletin from one or two of my Russian friends on myspace that American friends of theres just deleted frienships just because of this conflict that is going on right now. THIS IS VERY POOR OF THEM AND SAD to hear Americans are effected and blinded big time.

[Raven]

In order to be part of a NATO you have to have a full country that is pure with out other citizens from other nation like Russia which that is occupied in that provice in Georgia.

What a load of crap!

Albania has been granted admittance to NATO and it's full of ethnic groups.....

Also South Ossetia is a "Georgian" province and it's people are Georgian nationals NOT Russian nationals

Lets be honest, Georgian officials didn't have to "request" permission from NATO, Russia or anyone else due to the fact that it's troops were in Ossetia which, at the time, was considered by the world to be PART of Georgia

So Russia has "officially" invaded Georgia it's a simple FACT whether there's genocide going on or not it's not up to Russia to decide unilaterally to invade another European country, no matter for what reason.

I'm not saying that Georgia is innocent of any crimes, but, until some Neutral party looks into it let's stick to the facts as we know them...

[Betrayed]

FACT: Russian president has had enough of the fighting and has pulled Russian troops out of Georgea.

Only 5 towns were targeted by the attack one attack came stright too the capital and the other came around from the west

I think its over now so.. I'd happely say this thread should be closed? am i right?

[Insomnia]

Russia is not what it used to be even though its on its way back up there. The fall of the soviet union brought about an end to its super power era.

As of now, the only two countries that can come close to matching the united states in firepower are China for its cheer power in numbers... and the United Kingdom. Yes, the United Kingdom... MI:6 straight up pwnage.

IMHO.

[Betrayed]

Originally Posted by Insomnia

Yes, the United Kingdom... MI:6 straight up pwnage.

Nahh SaS would do more pwning than the MI6

[cpnichol]

Russia is very unhappy with Georgia and the Ukraine for forging closer ties with NATO, from the Russian point of view it is like their neighbours allying themselves with Russia's enemies. Enemies might be a bit strong but there is still a lot of the cold war thinking involved in the World, I doubt the US would be too happy if Mexico decided to ally itself with Russia and China.

There is an important oil pipeline in Georgia too, control of this or a friendly government to Russia in control and Russia will be able to exert further economic control/blackmail.

It seems to me that the Georgians fell into a trap. Russia wants Georgia weak so that their government is more likely to be voted out / overthrown and a government friendly to Russia put in its place. The two break away regions of Georgia gave them a way to do this, by supporting the rebels Russia weakens Georgia by making it difficult for them to re-establish control.

Russia had a "peacekeeping" force in the break away regions and had been handing out Russian passports to anyone who wanted one. The rebels were also carrying out attacks in the disputed area, which is the main reason Georgia decided to "invade".

If I were the Russians and was looking for an excuse to attack or invade Georgia then I'd be funding those rebels and telling them to make lots of attacks to provoke Georgia into attacking. Once Georgia attack there will be civilian casualties (Russian passport holders now), so Russia feels it is justified in attacking to defend it's citizens.

The Russian response was disproportionate to the Georgian attack, it looks to me like they were just giving Georgia a good kicking while they had the opportunity. No doubt with the intention of further weakening the Georgian government.

The Georgians made a mistake thinking that Russia wouldn't get involved and it now looks like Russia is going to be keeping South Ossetia.

[White-Pinnacle]

I think I read that most of the citizens in the two disputed provinces that were nominally occuppied by Russian "peace keepers" had Russian passports. The armed rebels in the two provinces were backed financially, politically, and militarily by the Russians. I believe there's been human rights abuses and exaggerations by all sides in this conflict.

I agree with cpnichol when he stated the Georgians fell for the trap by attempting to regain the two provinces via force of arms. Also the point that oil pipeline to the West is another factor the Russians want control makes a lot of sense.

I also believe that ever since Putin has been in the Russian leadership, he has significantly transformed Russia economically because of the energy resources it is providing to the West. With the economic power comes military power and he's definitely flexing that muscle and notifying all the former Soviet satellite nations of walking softly and falling in line. The Russians are going beyond the disputed provinces as a punishment and they are doing a really good job at it . . . they don't really care about civilian or military targets, they are all the same. . . if you don't believe me then take a look at the pictures of Chechnya after the fighting. Many many similarities with pictures from WW2 Stalingrad or Leningrad . . . total waste land in the cities.

The stakes are too low for a U.S. vs Russian confrontation. That would be bad for everyone involved. The Georgian President screwed up and should have waited to be an admitted member of NATO before the attempt to reoccupy former provinces. Georgia would have had the political shield it needed. The Russians would be more than happy to steam roll over the current Georgian government and with ease and the U.S. couldn't do a darn thing about it.

Nuclear Weapons+Economic Power+Military Power=Super Power

Don't under estimate the Russians like the Georgians did. I'm sorry to state that in my humble opinion the U.K. is not a super power (yes, I know U.K. has nukes, member of G8, has forces in Iraq, minimal though). U.K. does possess some elements of each but the country has been in decline since WW2 especially after the nationalism of the various countries in the British Empire. I read the Royal Navy was having problems paying for latest combatant ships . . . the Japanese may have more combat ships than the Royal Navy. Maybe the U.S. is in a decline as well . . . the end of the Pax Americana. The re-emergence of Russia and China to take on the role of world leadership. You have to view the conflict from the Russian perspective as well. . . expansion of NATO to former satellite countries, U.S. occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan, missile defense in Poland. I've stated these issues in a previous post . . . Putin is pissed and he's kicking butt!

White Pinnacle

[zol]

The Georgian provinces in question, South Ossetia and Abkahzia, want out of Georgia, obviously. Russia seems to be trying to be the LIBERATORS. How many times have we heard that one before. It's always different when some other one is the one doing it though.