Leaving IRAQ

[weaver]

I am of the opinion that our President, though noble in purpose and without a doubt true to his beliefs, has f%cked up Iraq.

Most of you are going w00t! Hell ya he did..But mind my words before you agree with me.

The Neo-Cons sent us to Iraq to shape policy and reality in the M.E.. And it worked, in our favor, at first. Egypt, Syria, Saudi, Yemen, Libya -- all turned and did as we wanted. We even started making progress in Israel/Palestine. Clearly things are not so now - Iran is gaining points for the fuckup occuring in Iraq.

But lets be clear. - Iran is a (if not THE) major contributor to 'crap' in Iraq.

What should the president have done? Found 100,000 more soldiers to send to Iraq. Seal the border with Iran. Hell - started bombing Iranian nuclear and military facilities at a low level months ago to put the message to them - "stay the hell out of iraq".

What should the president do now? One of two things.

1) Pull the hell out - everyone, everything - right now. Let the shit hit the fan. Watch another 100K Iraq's die in a bloody civil war. Watch Iran move their pawns into power and Iran become hegemon of the M.E. -- but we get out.

2) We are the single most powerful military force in the world. Politcs and talking isn't going to solve the current problems. Lets beef our troops up another 150-200K soldiers. Pull them out of Germany. Out of S. Korea (Kim Jung Crazy aint going do anything). We got 1.1M troops sitting here in the states. 12 months of high intensity battle and extend the battle to Iran's western border regions and make them feel the pain till one of us blinks. It best not be us.

-- I like option 2. I was in the military, I would return if called. I may have to lose some weight, but I'll be damned if my country is going to go Frenchy.

[weaver]

No one wants to take the bait, eh..

[Nikki]

At this point I think Option 1 is the direction we should head in. We have lost far too many of our service men and woman, especially considering that our illustrious president declared that the war was over in May 2003. This month alone we have lost almost 100 of our military personnel. The longer we stay, the more casualties we will suffer. If we send in more solders, it gives the Iraqi extremists more targets. We should get out NOW!!

[cpnichol]

Go on then .

Your're probably right about Iran causing a lot of the problems in Iraq. It was always going to be the case that the countries around Iraq would try to influence it's political outcome to suit their own interests. This is standard practice for many countries around the World, Russia does it with the Ukraine, Georgia and some of the stans, China too. The US has done it in Central America and if Mexico or Canada fell into civil war you can bet that the US would be actively involved in trying to get the outcome that would suit their needs best.

I wasn't in favour of going to war with Iraq in the first place but once it started I was hoping for as little bloodshed as possible. So I was reasonably pleased that the invasion happened fairly quickly. What I have not been impressed with is the plans for Iraq after the invasion, or rather the lack of plans. I was concerned because Iraq had been oppressed for so long that there would be some revenge attacks, rioting and looting. The infrastructure of the country was badly damaged and the Iraqi army/police and most goverment agencies were disbanded.

So for me outside interference from other countries and civil disorder seemed inevitable, unless the coalition were ready to prevent this from happening. The British Foreign Minister even described the looting of hospitals, govenment buildings and most other places as "inevitable". So they knew it was going to happen and did next to nothing. Ok they weren't going to be able to guard every shop and office but at least some key locations like hospitals.

So what to do about it? I don't like option 1. it would be seen as weak and I beleive it would be morally wrong to abandon Iraq to a future of violence.

Option 2. sounds like it would lead to more violence for even longer than looks likely now, so I don't like the sound of that. I also think it would be likely that the conflict would spread beyond Iraq, Iran and the US, with Isreal, Syria and other countries more likely to get involved. It would further sour US relations with Russia, China and some of Europe. You'd also be on your own, because our military are stretched as it is.

I think the best way forward would be to make sure the Iraqis can look after themselves. If we can get Iraq to the point where the police are able maintain control of the major cities and the army can take on insurgents, then we should be able to make a gradual withdrawl. The govenment would also need to be strong enough to hold the country together, if it splits up into Kurdish, Shia and Sunni then there could be trouble. Look what happened when India split into India and Pakistan.

If you want something to back that up, look at who the insurgents/terrorists are targeting. The Iraqi police and army, the government and people trying to vote, and Sunni and Shia. Their aimsare to make the army and police too weak to maintain control, the democratic process fail and provoke a bloody civil war. Because they know if democracy is established and Iraq holds toghether then the US wins, and a happy democracy next door is going to make the dictatorships, royal families and theocracies near by look bad.

[Fugazi]

Well if we cut and un that would be unprofessional. The middle east would look down furthur on us for going in there, leaving acountry in shambles, and then not finishing the job. This war is very senseless and American solder's are dying for little to no reason. We should have never went into Iraq in the first place. However, that is not the case. Now in Iraq the game is damage control. Let's get the country barely stable enough and then pull out. That my plan. I could see stability established in 6-9months then we leave. You guys are correct. This war is consuming too many resources (money, troops, lives) totally unnecessarily. Im studying Islam currently in Junior yr. of high school and it's clear to me the longer we are in Iraq the higher the tenacity of the insurgents become. This month the situation is more tense because its the holy Islamic month of ramadan. The insurgents are fasting and being more intense about their religion about their religion. Thats why this month is the highest death toll month is the whole war. 90+soldiers. This situation can only raise tension, no matter what.

I watched Bush's talk yest. on strategy. He doesnt put himself together really well. He seems to be in a serve state of denile.

Im in support of the troops. My cousin went to West Point, was in Mosul, and now he is home getting his Ranger certification in WA.

[Streetbum]

I think, that George W. isnt a bad guy. I think he never meant, or foresaw things going this way, and that we cant push ALL the blame on him. I will submit though, that he has messed this up bigtime, and i regret to say that we are stuck going with option 2. Option 1 only risks plunging into a horible conflict in the M.E., possibly a WW3. I for one, dont want to see dead servicemen, of ANY country, and i believe that option 2 would provide less deaths in the long run. I agree that when the insurgency sees 2 million US soldiers, they wont start crap, and that we should do just that. Germany is safe at the moment, and I agree that Crazy Kim is bluffing hardcore. The real threat is posed at pulling our soldiers out of iraq, and letting the situation freefall. I for one, am willing to join the service in the hopes of helping to stabalize our current world.

[NavyOS]

I like your second Option weaver. I'm in the U.S. military right now and I don't like going over there, believe me....but I think it would be what's best for right now. Pulling out will definately be seen as weak and that's not something we want to show to the rest of the world. I think that we have some lousy Generals in the past that were in charge in Iraq and now we have a few better ones. I know that if we get at least 50-60,000 more troops over there it'll make a huge difference. I do not want anymore bloodshed, but it might be necessary fora stable government to take over in Iraq. I know a lot of you don't agree, but that's just my opinion.

Navy

[Silent262]

To start, i agree the war was a mistake.

However, since we started it we have to finish it. I dont believe that pulling troops from places like germany is a brillant idea though, NK, yes... if they want to shoot more "fall apart missles" i dont care.., once again that is a world issue not a US issue, let someone else take a seat over there. The best thing we can pray for is a quck cleanup using any extra troops,that werent just shipped back here(they deserve a rest). Start it, support the troops, finish it.