Harsh but True

[Alpha]

Prime Minister John Howard - Australia; Muslims who want to live under Islamic Sharia law were told on Wednesday to get out of Australia , as the government targeted radicals in a bid to head off potential terror attacks.


Separately, Howard angered some Australian Muslims on Wednesday by saying he supported spy agencies monitoring the nation's mosques. Quote: 'IMMIGRANTS, NOT AUSTRALIANS, MUST ADAPT. Take It Or Leave It. I am tired of this nation worrying about whether we are offending some individual or their culture. Since the terrorist attacks on Bali , we have experienced a surge in patriotism by the majority of Australians.'


'This culture has been developed over two centuries of struggles, trials and victories by millions of men and women who have sought freedom.'


'We speak mainly ENGLISH, not Spanish, Lebanese, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language Therefore, if you wish to become part of our society, learn the language!'


'Most Australians believe in God. This is not some Christian, right wing, political push, but a fact, because Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation, and this is clearly documented. It is certainly appropriate to display it on the walls of our schools. If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new home, because God is part of our culture.'


'We will accept your beliefs, and will not question why. All we ask is that you accept ours, and live in harmony and peaceful enjoyment with us.'


'This is OUR COUNTRY, OUR LAND, and OUR LIFESTYLE, and we will allow you every opportunity to enjoy all this. But once you are done complaining, whining, and griping about Our Flag, Our Pledge, Our Christian beliefs, or Our Way of Life, I highly encourage you take advantage of one other great Australian freedom, 'THE RIGHT TO LEAVE'.'


'If you aren't happy here then LEAVE. We didn't force you to come here. You asked to be here. So accept the country YOU accepted.'

[Atrus]

Nothing harsh about that Deb - sounds spot on to me.

[Tracer]

I would remind people of "The First Amendment" of "The Bill Of Rights" in "The Amercan Constitution" . The oath to uphold every American takes , that holds office or enters the military or becomes a citizen of The United States Of America .

First Amendment: addresses the rights of freedom of religion (prohibiting Congressional establishment of a religion over another religion through Law and protecting the right to free exercise of religion), freedom of speech, freedom of the press, freedom of assembly, and freedom of petition.
Anyone heard of tolerance and freedom of religion ?

Those statements made by that dictator in Austrailia go against the American Costititution and everything American Soldiers have fought and died for the past 200 years . Family members of many of us who use this forum have fought and died to uphold our constitution and agreeing with that statement is tantemount to spitting in their faces . How dare you ?

A lot of our forefathers came to America , and they didn't speak English , they were not Christians but yet they built the United States we know today . They were non- english-speaking Chinese who built our rail roads , non-english-speaking Italians who built our scyscrapers , bridges and factories , non-english-speaking latinos who worked our fields , making sure we had our crops harvested .

Nobody has the right to dictate what religion those who apply to immigrate have . You can make laws that say they must have so much money , or a certain level of education which anyone can strive for and achieve . But to change one's faith as a requirement , that is outright discrimination and shows a lack of tolerance and education . What next , no homosexuals , no blacks , no Chinese because they are buhdist's ? Where will it stop .Remember Hitler , he only wanted certain classes of people in his country as well worshipping his way and talking his way .

There will always be those who are un-educated and lacking toterance , and will deny the first amendment to others . Just not in America . It is an insult to every war vet that anguished in a prisoner of war camp to uphold that first amendment . It is an insult to any American , period . It is these types of statements that should be laughed at and ridiculed as outright as being silly and defeated in both world wars .

HARSH BUT TRUE !!!!!!

[Atrus]

Tracer... do you actually read/remember what people write? I've read just about every one of your posts and while thoughtful they often miss the point.

Let me quote what Australia's Prime Minister said, "We will accept your beliefs, and will not question why. All we ask is that you accept ours, and live in harmony and peaceful enjoyment with us."

So this warrants another sermon, but now on the Constitution? Too funny.

BTW -- you cop'd out on your religion thread. Two people challenge your assertions and you ask the admin to pull the plug. Where did the faith go - and I guess we're all left thinking that it's your view that anyone who doesn't subscribe to your religion/ideology is a Nazi. That sounds more political than about anything spiritual... interesting.

Now here's something for you to analyze... why is it that the Prime Minister, or an ever increasing number of American's living in an uncertain world of terror and fear should not demand that anyone who wants to live in these free lands show tolerance. And at the risk of having a novella on the Constitution for an answer - do YOU really believe this goes against our Constitution and who WE are as a people - you find some problem in asking that visitors/immigrants to our country live in peace and in religious freedom?

Seriously dude, you need to chill out here - these forums are for the free exchange of ideas - if you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen.

~A

[seroone]

Originally Posted by Atrus

BTW -- you cop'd out on your religion thread. Two people challenge your assertions and you ask the admin to pull the plug. Where did the faith go - and I guess we're all left thinking that it's your view that anyone who doesn't subscribe to your religion/ideology is a Nazi. That sounds more political than about anything spiritual... interesting.
~A

Cheap shot in my mind....



I do agree with this thread why is it we bend to oncomming immagrants?.....
Abbotsford, a couple of months ago an Indian wedding was taking place and they decided that they would go onto the streets...... this is a big street with oncoming traffic........ they start dancing and chanting in the middle of the dam street and one of them gets hit!... Now this indian group is Sueing Abbotsford and the driver of the vehical because they got injured. There case is "There wasnt Adaquit lighting in the street and they have the right to be dancing in the street." Now I have an indian friend who came from india and says THIS THING HAPPENS ALL THE TIME IN INDIA. A quick means to get rich fast!........



Crap like that needs to stop. No dancing in the streets. Call Christmas by its true name. Dont claim discrimination if your passed a job.


Stuff like that happens so often it is building racial tension.... I have noticed in my school Asians stick with asians. Whites stick with whites. Indians Stick with Indians..... My school is being integraded with another school, there is enough tension in the school already with almost a fight a day some racial some not.

The austrailian "dictator" is making a fair point, No problem if you want to come to our country and Better your life. But if you want to change our country to better your religion.... Thats a flaw.

I just woke up, Forgive me if things dont add up.

[Tracer]

This is racial profiling Atrus like it or not...

Separately, Howard angered some Australian Muslims on Wednesday by saying he supported spy agencies monitoring the nation's mosques.

--------------------------------------------------------
I remember just fine and I read just fine....Why would you ask ?
Why can't I post my free ideas ? Hypocrite !
I can take what I want from a topic and express my view ..Who are you to tell me what I can think and what I can't ?
It is you my friend who is attempting to preach to me and not submit your view on the topic as usual .

Why not critic my post and leave my name out of it . Why be personal ?
No need to take sides ....simply state your opinion .

Instead you jump now to this thread after not sticking to the topic in the other thread I asked to be closed.

You couln't figure out that you were suppose to ask a question . That's why thread was closed ....You never asked a question..duh

If there is any heat being felt it's you my freind...I am cool ..look at my Avitar !!! lol
Atrus..you may disagree with what I said but personally labelling me and judging me is not called for here . I will respect your views and opinions and you need to respect mine any anyone else who post's on this forum without judging people and labelling them. You really should brash up on your debating skills .If you stuck to the topics rather then pointing fingers and naming names ...you might be taken seriously ....

Anyway back to the original post....It's just wrong to ask people to learn a certain lanquage and not to be able to practice their religion and have the freedom to speak their language and practice their traditions . This is the crux of what was said .I have the right to disagree with it .....Like it or not , it would violate the first amendment in the United States Of America ...
I totally disagree with what the Austrialian said.....

[Atrus]

Excuse me Tracer -- don't get your knickers in a twist -- I didn't know it was tabu to address someone by name if you have something specific to say to them? Curious - I see folks do it all time?

Off topic yes, but since you had the other thread shut down before anyone could respond? Here's the question asked that you missed. "Would the God you believe in abandon so many souls who by virtue of their flawed human teachings don't recognize what you perceive to be as the one and only God." But, I also said I wasn't looking for an answer so you may have simply overlooked the sum of the statement. Not a problem, but bailing out on that thread was lame. PM me if you must -- I'll get back on topic.

Thank you for keeping your response here brief. History has shown that regardless of the Constitution and how we want immigrants to our country to comply with our ways we have always had some who did not, or could not completely conform, and they were left alone. The essence of what the Australian PM said has value NOW, we live in a vastly different world today than we did during the great immigration of the industrial age. A different world indeed.

Also, I don't see where the PM said anything about forcing religion on anyone, only that they accept to live in peace within the Australian culture, and to tolerate that cultures values and heritage.

Not too much to ask as far as I'm concerned

~A

[seroone]

You guys need to take this into the rant zone and have a good ole debate here.....

[Atrus]

Pronunciation: \ˈrant\
Function: verb
Etymology: obsolete Dutch ranten, randen
Date: 1601

intransitive verb 1 : to talk in a noisy, excited, or declamatory manner 2 : to scold vehemently transitive verb : to utter in a bombastic declamatory fashion
— rant·er noun
— rant·ing·ly Listen to the pronunciation of rantingly \ˈran-tiŋ-lē\ adverb

Seroone - did I rant? It was suggested to take off topic to PM

[seroone]

Originally Posted by Atrus

Pronunciation: ˈrant
Function: verb
Etymology: obsolete Dutch ranten, randen
Date: 1601

intransitive verb 1 : to talk in a noisy, excited, or declamatory manner 2 : to scold vehemently transitive verb : to utter in a bombastic declamatory fashion
— rant·er noun
— rant·ing·ly Listen to the pronunciation of rantingly ˈran-tiŋ-lē adverb

Seroone - did I rant? It was suggested to take off topic to PM

I am saying You and Tracer are having arguments about past posts. Go into the rant zone create a post saying Tracer Debate. And argue with him there stop brining this into threads That is what i was requesting so please doso. Thank you and have a nice day.

[Atrus]

Originally Posted by Atrus

PM me if you must -- I'll get back on topic.

Seroone, thank you so much for suggesting that we do something other than a PM. I can't tell you how much your input and advice is appreciated.

[slayer44]

I sort of agree me and my dad where talking about something like this.

In my schools the female Muslims get away with skipping music classes because its against their religion.

and in school we aren't aloud to wear hoods but the Muslims are aloud to cover up their faces completely with a hijab ?

Its not really fair and the reason they say no hoods or hats "Because we want to be able to see your face and identify you.

[Atrus]

slayer44,

My Daughter is a first year High School teacher here in VA. Before classes began she had to attend a legal briefing on how to manage children of different cultures and religions. Now this is fine because it is our culture to treat people with respect and consideration and to show tolerance and acceptance of their religious and cultural needs.

What concerns me is the recent trend where Americans are expected to accommodate ALL religions while suppressing their own. I'm not sure, but it would seem there is a movement against or attack on Christianity. As you mention in the school systems, but also in the media, and in the way we market our holiday seasons. WHAT - can't say Merry Christmas anymore? Sorry, our culture - our heritage - our Constitution allows Americans to express appreciation for and recognition of Christianity. There was a list on the Internet last year before Christmas of stores that were afraid to use the phrase, and I avoided all that didn't express the sentiment.

A good example of our tolerance is with the Muslim female wearing the Vail. I could see her around town and not be concerned, but the guy in the ski mask might need a closer look. Everything has to be measured and within reason if we're to survive these troubled times.

~A