SpawnPoint - Where Game Begins

For the last 3 days there have been riots in the UK, they started in London and have been spreading to other towns and cities. The police appear to be overwhelmed and the government all appeared to be on holiday.

The event that triggered it off was the police shooting dead a man after he apparently fired at police from a taxi. The incident started when one officer was hit but the bullet lodged in his radio. Apparently initial tests show that this was a police bullet, so no idea what happened there.

The rioters appear intent on attack the police, setting cars or buildings on fire and doing a lot of looting. There have been some significant fires mostly in shops that have been looted but a lot of people have had their houses or flats burned down too. Basically they are destroying their own neighbourhoods and making some locals homeless, idiots. There's also a huge blaze at a massive Sony distribution center.

I'm sure there are more reasons why so many people have just decided to riot, it's not simply that the police shot someone, they've shot dead innocent people before. I guess there is a lot of anger out there for a lot of reasons, we've had corrupt police, MPs milking their expenses, banks ruining the economy, newspapers hacking phones and massive spending cuts.

It all makes this from last year rather interesting:


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A few links to give you a flavour of what it looks like:

http://yfrog.com/0wtduz

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/photos/in-pictures-london-riots-1312800593-slideshow/

The police response was so poor primarily because there weren't enough police to deal with all the different outbreaks of violence and looting. Tear gas, water cannons etc. are only really much use for moving people, you still need police numbers to deal with actually making arrests or clearing a larger area. It's also spread out over numerous locations and constantly moving. They are using police dogs and armoured vehicles and apparently they do have some kind of plastic bullet guns but aren't using those yet.

There are also questions about police leadership, this is the 3rd night of riots and there were still no where near enough police on the streets and it doesn't look like those that were were being used effectively. Not a great surprise when police spending is being slashed and the guy in charge of the Met Police resigned recently over the phone hacking scandal. Our Prime Minister finally got back from holiday and all of a sudden there are going to be 10,000 more police available tonight. Why they decided to wait for so long to get the numbers they needed I don't know, maybe the police couldn't authorise it and had to wait for someone in government to come back from holiday.

More pictures:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/picturegalleries/uknews/8690375/London-riots-Police-battle-to-enforce-order-on-the-streets-of-London-for-a-third-night.html

Wow that video almost brings my blood to a boil. Bunch of teenage punks who probably haven't the slightest idea why they are rioting. Seems they just see an opportunity to break things, steal, and retaliate against police with anonymity. I hate seeing when people unjustly fight those who make their lives safe and orderly. If they had a clue what goes on in countries without police or an effective government they would be praising these fine officers.

The restraint from the police is amazing, granted they don't have numbers on their side. If this was in the U.S. beanbags, teargas and rubber bullets would have been used a long, long time ago. As xtreme said, depending on the area, it may or may not worsen the situation, as racial minorities generally pull an enourmous double standard here. If you don't let them loot, vandalize and harass, your a racist. Let me clarify I'm not the slightest bit racist, maybe a tad bigoted, but thats just the plain truth. Whats even worse is, once theres even a hint of someone calling the race card around here, politicians will cease every attempt to stop them and cater to their every need.

Anyway, back to the UK riots. I guess the police can't do much other than try to enforce a curfew, because the more they crack down, the more angry these teens will get that someone is spoiling their fun. The biggest influence is the townsfolk and parents. They need to be responsible with where and what their kids are doing. Even moreso, if the citizens who are against this stood up alongside the officers, the riots would end in one night I guarantee it. I suspect those against it hold an overhwhelming majority, and therin lies your solution. However as long as they stay buttoned up in the protection of their homes, it will only get worse.

10,000 more police? Jeez, that's a lot of men. I think things are going to get shut down real fast, now, but only if the police are allowed to do something. Eventually, we're going to have to toss aside the race card and just accept that we are all people of Earth - you are actively involved in something with other people of different creed, color, etc, and you're going to server the same punishment as them.


As for the picture Phil posted... all I could think of was a quidditch match. I'm a terrible person.

Quote from Tullsy 2011-08-09 15:47:32

Made me laugh so much, i read this before looking at the picture and it certainly cheered me up. Probably shouldn't be laughing but that is all i could think of from then onwards.

As for this i feel rather ignorant but i didn't know about it until last night at about 10 o clock. Shows i live in the countryside where nothing happens and keep myself to myself. But it is shocking. That video is terrible, i just got the feeling that those guys need a serious head kicking. It actually had me angry, who would do something like that and not feel terrible with themseles I hope someone down the street saw it and hit him with a crowbar, it is disgusting.

Hopefully now with the police backup it will be settled soon, if not get the military in and see how they like having the big boys stood on the corners not afraid of laying the smackdown. It really bugs me how the police can't do their job without someone complaining. It is either because of racism, brutality or they are power mad or whatever. But if they try and do it how people want it they aren't doing enough. If they did bring in bean bag guns, rubber bullets you would just get people complaining and trying to cause more problems because they got hurt, they shot the wrong person or a rioter died as a result of it. I find the police in this country just can't please everyone, even if they do what is needed to stop the riot, they get complaints, they do nothing they get complaints. These days i find they are being backed into a corner where they are forced to watch the things unfold unable to do anthing apart from bottleneck people into an area, and herd them together. Because of what shift said, they don't allow looting from ethnic groups it gets put down to racist reasons. Treat everyone the same, i am sick of the race card being played, it shouldn't exist everyone should be treated equally and get rid of this nonsense.

This riot doesn't appear to have any just cause, the people doing it aren't doing it because someone got shot dead or whatever they are doing it because they can while appearing to have a reason, my bets is half the people don't know why it is happening, they just know it is happening and want in. I for one Hope the people involved in it all get the punsihment they deserve, get them cleaning the mess they created and serve a prison sentence.

One group of people i can see happy about this in business terms though is the fire and flood restoration businesses, and also glass fitter and decorators. they are going to be kept busy in the next few weeks/months

It wasn't that it in itself is a race riot, but someone mentioned before that a possible factor behind the lack of police involvement was race...

Edit: a quote from a great man that seems to have more than a little relevance in this day and age.

Britan could be considered a police state, X, so a "draconian" reaction from the police is not entirely out of the question - that being said, it's highly unlikely.

A few more points of interest.

Uk Readies Water Cannons (finally)

People, like in Vancouver, are using social networking to organize clean up operations.

The real character of a nations people are not who they are during times of unrest, but who they are after the damage has been done. Good job, Londoners.

Another ray of shining light. A group of Londoners is going around bringing tea to the policemen and women, some of which have been on duty for more than 30 hours.

Edit number three: a good idea from one of the commentors on a BBC post I read ealier. They said that, should water cannons be used, dye should be added to the water in order to easily identify the rioters/looters. He wrote:


"In difficult circumstances water cannons should be used. The way to identify those involved in the rioting is to add a dye to the water. Thus the parents and police can identify those involved or if they throw their incriminating clothing away, then the parents can ask questions. Those people who do not want to have this happen to their clothing will keep well away. Just a thought."

Source: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14474393?postId=109929824#comment_109929824

I found an interesting little bit from that water cannon story Tullsy, where it mentions the EDL.

"In Enfield (an area of London), there was a racial undertone to the scenes as a large group of men roamed the area, chanting 'England, England,'" the paper said. This chant is used innocently at soccer matches, but has also been adopted by far-right groups such as the English Defence League. The EDL also said that about 1,000 of its members around the country were taking to the streets to deter rioters.

"We're going to stop the riots — police obviously can't handle it," EDL leader Stephen Lennon told The Associated Press. He warned that he couldn't guarantee there wouldn't be violent clashes with rioting youths.

Anders Behring Breivik, who has confessed to the bombing and massacre that killed 77 people in Norway last month, has cited the EDL as an inspiration." (MSNBC)

So many points to cover, this may get long .

Firstly everything seems to have quietened down, which is good.

The injured guy who got mugged by people who seemed to be helping him was a 20 year old Malaysian student. The reason he was bleeding was because he'd been dragged off his bike by rioters and broken his jaw when he hit the floor. He's been speaking about what happened and has said he's determined to stay, has no ill feelings about what happened and feels sorry for the people who attacked him:

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/2011/08/12/london-riots-malaysian-student-who-was-mugged-by-good-samaritans-says-he-plans-to-stay-in-uk-86908-23339227/

I really like that guy. One man is being questioned by police over that incident.

One man who tried to stamp out a fire started by rioters has died of his injuries after he was beaten by rioters. 3 people also died when apparently out defending their neighbourhood from rioters a car was intentionally driven at their group. There have been arrests connected to both those incidents.

Courts have been working 24 hours a day to process the many arrests. While the majority of those arrested fit into the under 25 and no job category there has been a wide variety of ages, races and professions charged with crimes.

The announcement that water cannons can be used is basically useless as the police force has to order them 24 hours in advance. Police to rioters "meet you back here tomorrow? We need a water cannon".

There is disagrement between police and the government. The police defending their response and tactics, saying it was the police who decided to bring in more police not the government and that the 20% cuts in police budget would effect front line police numbers. I'm sure the government's proposed cut in the fire service budget will also have no effect on their ability to do their job.

The race card thing. Perfectly understandable you'd think it was a race riot, events fit with a lot of similar ones both here and in the US. It's just this wasn't a race riot and it was one of the main replies so could give people the wrong impression. I got a bit grumpy about that, sorry, but it needed clearing up.

Our police got criticised a lot over their tactics in recent legal protests where they would stop or detain anyone they didn't like the look of. Say if you were going to an anti war march you could find your vehicle being pulled over and you wouldn't be allowed to continue your journey. Or if you happened to be near someone the police didn't like you would be "kettled", held in place surrounded by police until they decided to let you go. No evidence of wrong doing was required, no toilet breaks were allowed, you just had to stay there.

Then there was the guy who was a bit drunk, not involved in any protests (not the recent riots) and just wanted to go home, he was moving away from police and got shoved to the floor, hard. He died a short while after.

Yet when we have people setting fire to stuff and looting shops the police adopt a stand off approach. They crack down hard on any possible threat in legal and organised protests and haven't a clue when actual disorder breaks out on the streets. Shows how their training has been focused, they are trained to shut down legal protests because that is what the government sees as the threat.

It'd be nice to think that tear gas or rubber bullets would do the trick but these are heavily populated areas that were usually full of innocent civilians. Those are best deployed when the crowd has a specific target and gather in one place. This was not the case, fire tear gas and the rioters bugger off somewhere else leaving the residents with the tear gas.

The blame game has also started. It's the parents, govenment, police, society, immigrants, evil children, spending cuts, it's because people are treated like scum so they act like it, it's because there's no jobs, it's because people have no hope, no chance of ever gettin a job etc.

The riots happened around poor areas, most of the offenders were under 25, youth unemployment is at an all time high and the gap between rich and poor is growing. I predict more riots.

Sorry Xem, I think you're barking up the wrong tree.

Police don't get the badge because they are brutes or because they are ruthless in their job. They don't get their badge to be that way, either. The issue I find with people complaining about the police is that nobody films the police doing their job properly - it's only when they step over the line that they are recorded, and that's cast a bad light on them. There are hundreds of corrupt cops doing a piss-poor job on YouTube, and that makes for the best "entertainment," if you will.

In this situation, the police have all the right in the world to use force. There are hundreds of people abusing the law, and they are fully aware of what they are doing. So long as the police aren't doing anything besides subduing and cuffing the people who are committing the crimes, they aren't stepping beyond their jurisdiction.